Thought this might be interesting to you guys here:
1chiddle - Great video Alex. A lot for the Mr and Mrs Witness to think about. You should really? look at how others view God and the Bible. I get the feeling that you will never accept the Bible because it makes no sense with the Watchtower's spin.
Me - I don't accept the Bible as God's only word to mankind. That's just silly. We need to expand beyond that prejudice and start coexisting with other beliefs.
1chiddle - You really believe that? Is it more like just wishful thinking? Christ's message of "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me..." doesn't mix with other beliefs. Sure you can try and put a spin on this as others have tried, saying "he's not talking about himself personally,? but rather his fundamental teaches..."
Problem with that: this IS his fundamental teaching.. "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the? branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned."
Seriously, who are Christians supposed to coexist with?
Muslim's, who deny the very foundation of the Christianity; Jesus is the Son of God, he died and taking away the sin of all who put their faith in him,? and then was raised up again of the third day?
Hindu's, who are polytheistic and deny salvation itself; who say that we will continue from one life to another?
Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism are the three biggest beliefs in the world today, at what point can they co-exist?
Me - I don't try to "put a spin" on Jesus ? words. I invalidate them. I don't think he is the only way just because of John 14:6. He is one way. We have a fundamental conflict here, so I don't think it will go anywhere.
May you have peace.
1chiddle - You sound like Oprah. So in other words you create your own religion, you make God in your own image; cherry picking between beliefs keeping the bits you like, and throwing out the bits you don't.
How is Jesus "a" way if he's not the only way? And way to what exactly?? If you say Jesus' words are false then you make him out to be a liar; a self righteous fraud, and no better then the likes of Hitler being the way.
Me - I don't cherry pick the Bible. I don't believe in it's divinity so there is nothing to cherry pick. I see it as a wealth of knowledge. Parts of the Bible try to invalidate all other faiths which is short-sighted ? and just intolerant.
Love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge lest you be judged. These are the messages of the Bible that stand out.
1chiddle - The biggest message in the Bible is believe in Jesus, the Son of God, as your Lord and Saviour else you will die in your sins.
Whether you believe the bible is divinely inspired or not, really is? besides the point, you're still cherry picking.
Me - It's not beside the point at all. The fact that I don't believe in the Bible's divinity means that I have no ? need for it to be congruent. Therefore I can study it with my eyes open not needing it to agree with itself, history and science or be perfect in any way.
1chiddle - Be perfect??
Me - "God's ? Word" must be perfect, since God is perfect.
1chiddle - Got ya. I get what you mean. I don't believe the Bible as God's word because I like it's dust cover. I didn't fully accept the Bible as the word of God until it was born again and had the Holy Spirit confirming what was written,? anyways. Before then, I used to take the majority of the what I read with a pinch of salt.
Me - I have not created my own religion. I believe in ? a Creator and that that Creator has a purpose. Everything else is up to interpretation and SHOULD NOT be used to pass judgment. That's what I believe and I will stand before my Creator with it.
1chiddle - What is your philosophy in living an upright life in the? eyes of God?
Me - I believe God gave us the tools innately to be righteous and upright. Revelation is not required to live by God standards because it comes by naturally. These natural moral laws are hard coded into our humanity and can be accessed by anyone who wishes to.
I have a 7 month old boy, he is not a sinner. We, like him, started out righteous and upright. I believe sin and corruption is learned by ones that ignore ? our innate source of Good.
1chiddle - Paul said "...for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law." (Rom 5:13) All are sinful from birth, just imagine the consequences of a baby's behavior projected onto a fully matured 40 year old man... the implications of which would be devastating. Now the baby maybe considered righteous because of their lacking in the knowledge of good and wrong, but in their very nature they are like us all;? sinful to the core.
Ultimately we sin when wilfully embracing that which we know is wrong. So when a kid learns that something is wrong, this? could be either subjective or objective, yet wilfully does that thing, then they sin. You mentioned the trees in the Garden of Eden, I take these trees to be even more literal than Watchtower would, not only were they literal trees, but their applications were literal also. Adam and Eve literally had no concept of right and wrong before their eyes were opened.
Me - I know what the Bible says about Sin, and I deny it. Why ? go through all the trouble of describing Original Sin to me when you know I don't accept it as valid?
1chiddle - Because your philosophy on sin makes no sense to me. If we start out righteous by nature how and why then do we become sinful? A sinful? man cannot of himself become righteous (you may disagree), so how does a righteous man become sinful?
Me -I don't believe in Sin, I believe ? in beneficial choices and detrimental choices. Some choose the "sinful" path of making decisions that are detrimental either to themselves or their environment. Other choose the "righteous" path that involves benefiting themselves and the world around them.
I actually don't even believe in right and wrong in a cosmic sense. I believe in cause and effect.
Cause and effect are what eventually created right and wrong through humanity's social evolution
1chiddle - Then there is no determiner for living an upright life. All that is? considered right and wrong is just subjective, so all would be acceptable in the eyes of God.
Me - of course it would be acceptable in the eyes of God. We are doing what he made us to do, to live and to grow. As long as an individual is doing what they feel in their heart is the right thing to do they are doing what they were made for.
Of course some will do what they think is right to great error. These errors must be acknowledged ? and remedied.
Some of the most beautiful moments in human history is when a "wrong" is "righted"
this life cycle of continuing ? refinement of humankind has been going on for a very long time.
1chiddle - So as long as we do want we consider right, even if this is doing wrong for a greater good then we are justified in what we do?
Hitler considered the Jews a disease, he considered? it right to massacre them. This is one of many examples the same, but probably the most well known. You think people like Hitler are going to be rewarded by God for their integrity?
Me - I never said anything about a reward. I don't know what happens after we die or whether or not we are judged by our deeds or whatever. I do know that ? if everyone does what they feel is right then humans progress.
What Hitler did was an atrocity. But the Jews picked up the pieces and continued on, and I think there is something to take from that.
Once you start getting into "justifying" ours and others behavior we start to judge.
and historically when we start to judge is when the Hitler type things start happening.
Don't be concerned with whether our actions are acceptable or justifiable to God or not. Be more concerned with making the most of the time given to you. Be the best person for yourself, your family and anyone you come across in life.
That's the ? way I live my life. I know there are a lots of questions that arise from that philosophy and it isn't wrong to consider them.
it's just when the rewards and reasons for our actions start to take priority in our lives and we forget that living a good righteous life is not some complicated thing. Just truly look inside yourself and embrace the good and virtuous aspects and you will be fine.
God has a plan, I believe that. But I think the ultimate plan is not for us to know right now because our job is this earth and it's inhabitants, to live in ? harmony. Maybe God will show himself once we start to truly ? live in harmony, I don't know.
1chiddle - Believe me, I respect and admire what you said about allowing rewards and reasons for actions taking priority in our lives. I was hesitant to use the word in my last comment as it was.
Reward is not the driving motive in? my life, it is to bring glory to God, as I know (and I know that may sound arrogant) that my reward is already secure in Christ, it is a gift and nothing to do with my actions, as it is my inheritance rather than reward for my actions.
Maybe God has already revealed himself and laid out the requirement, but you have rejected him;? determined to find your own "path" and tear off anything that ties you with your past as a follower of the Watchtower?
Keep seeking God with your heart and mind open. So many "seek" God by trying to force him into a little box that their mind can cope with and wonder why he does reveal himself.
God bless
Me - thank you for your kind words, but I believe that when God reveals ? himself I wont need to be told by anyone that it has happened. It will be for all eyes to see and his plan will then become ever apparent. In the meantime I will continue on my endeavor to aid others.
Your path with Christ is just as valid as my path, like I said as long as you believe in what you are doing, and you have looked in your heart as well as your mind, all power to you!
God bless you as well.
-Sab