Are we all insane?

by sleepy 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    Are we all insane?
    No not for leaving the witnesses , but are humans insane in general?

    What do I mean?
    Well when a witness I believed there was a certain mental level that humans were supposed to be at , perfect.
    They had a potential that they were designed to achieve.
    A standard at which you could be considered fully operational.
    But is there such a thing?
    If we are not designed but are the product of chance combinations of molecules then can we say there is a standard of sanity for humans , a definite level at which we can be considered sane or normal?

    Well since there is no independent judge ( i.e.. a God ) who can define the standard what can we use to define sanity?
    Is it the average ( most common)level amongst most humans that we should strive for or only the select capabilities of a few people that we can judge it by?
    Maybe sanity is just the ability to interact well with the outside world.
    As people we all , I mean all have quirks.
    There is no one I know who does not at times do something or act it a certain way that I feel is strange. Of course the same applies to me when viewed by other people.
    Therefore unless there is some major diversion from “normality” all are thus sane.
    Only people who do or think things that are not real aspects of the outside world (i.e. believe they have been kidnapped by aliens when they have not ) are insane.
    But isn’t that judgement relative. How do I know that what I think is really happening is not and what someone else does is true?
    Well maybe we have to go with the majority vote here. What most people think is normal or right is normal.
    But then the majority has been wrong before.
    Of course when we deal with things in a scientific way it can be determined what is true and what is false .
    By scientific analysis we can determine how the real world works and then modify our viewpoint if different to fit in.
    Then maybe we are sane.
    Yet our entire world with the exception of nothing is viewed through our brains. We can not receive any information on the outside world without it being processed by our brain. Is our Brain truly letting us know the truth about the outside world or just interpreting it , in a nice way for us?
    Will we ever know?
    Quantum mechanics tells us that the observer effects the observed. That it is impossible to take a “measurement” without effecting the thing measured. So when our brain takes in information about this world is our knowledge of how we think this world works effecting what we “see”.
    Is there anyway of separating our minds from the universe stepping back at seeing it as it really is without effecting it?
    Do people who believe in God see the world in a different way to those that don’t , is that belief less valid than the person who thinks he can prove there is no God. Are they both right , both just seeing the world through there own minds?
    In deed as long as consciousness is not understood can we really say what the world really is?
    Even if consciousness is just a function of certain configurations of atoms , it still in its operation transcends it component parts.
    My vision for example appears separate and apart from it parts from which it is constructed. It is like having a computer and its circuits producing a picture that stands separate from its box in mid air appearing to be totally unconnected.( even though I locate my vision to my head the sense that does this is the vision itself if I shut my eyes and had no sense of touch I could not locate were I exist your vision makes you feel like you are inhabiting your body , you can be fooled by tests into locating parts of your body elsewhere).
    Also I only exist in me , the coming together of atoms to form our brains doesn’t result in us being conscious every where there is that configuration but only in our own , why if it is only a configuration of atoms does this happen?
    People tend to want to rationalise the universe and how it is , but which ever way you look at it we get to a point where things stop being rational.
    If you believe in God how did he get here?
    If you believe that only a random expansion of space and time caused the universe were did the material come from , was it always there , did it appear out of nowhere , what was before that .
    Even the ideas of invisible forces , wave particle duality and many other thing show us that the universe is probably not “rational “ to us.
    There we have lots of questions I’m sure its possible some may have already found the answers or there maybe flaws to my reasoning.
    But I believe the search for truth is not over by a long way.
    So baybe we are not sane in an absolute sense after all.
    Just able to understand certain aspects of the universe that really matter to us.

  • BATHORY
    BATHORY

    G'Day snoozy.

    " Quantum mechanics tells us that the observer effects the observed. That it is impossible to take a “measurement” without effecting the thing measured "

    Very interseting application but from my understanding it only applies to the measurement of the velocity and position of a subatomic particle, any application by extension has no scientific basis and is apparently not within the scope of the law, but bloody interesting thought !!!

    " Even the ideas of invisible forces , wave particle duality and many other thing show us that the universe is probably not “rational “ to us"

    Could you go into more detail about this if you have it ??

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    Bathory

    " Quantum mechanics tells us that the observer effects the observed. That it is impossible to take a “measurement” without effecting the thing measured "

    Very interseting application but from my understanding it only applies to the measurement of the velocity and position of a subatomic particle, any application by extension has no scientific basis and is apparently not within the scope of the law, but bloody interesting thought !!!

    Actually it aplies to all quantum effects.
    A quantum object has no definate value untill measured.
    And then it can take a number of states according to what you are measuring for.

    Of course when we come to the classical world I.e above quatum these effects seam to disappear, or even out.
    But ultimately all classical effects are results of quatum effects.
    Even on a classical level the measurer effecting the measurment happens, although in everyday life you'd hardly notice .
    For instance a ruler will change in lenght according to who is holding it and were it is due to temperture differences.( these effects being to small to matter to us)
    There is an absloute value for lenghts at a given tempreture in labs around the world we you could measure against.
    Do these kind of things effect our brains and how we see the world I don't know.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    HI Sleepy,

    I've thought about all those unanswerable questions so much that I don't let it worry me anymore. We have enough things that we have to face in life that all those mysteries are pointless. Things like how am I going to get enough money to pay the bills, what do I do about that sickness I will eventually get, how do I stay happy with life, how can I face death without letting it ruin my life?

    Sanity is determined by the chemical and electrical functions in the brain coupled to the information it has assimilated and the society it dwells in. At least thats my definition.

    Good discussion, I enjoyed reading it.

    Ken P.

  • TR
    TR

    Telll meeee peeeeeople, Ammm I go-in' insane....insaaaane....insaaaane? -Ozzy Osbourne

    TR

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    --Benjamin Franklin, 1759

  • gumby
    gumby

    Quote:....If we are not designed but are the product of chance combinations of molecules then can we say there is a standard of sanity for humans , a definite level at which we can be considered sane or normal?

    Who sets the standard? Do the majority that all tick the same way set the standard for what is the accepted explanation of sanity?

    Autistic people are nearest a genius.
    Would you say they are normal?

    To me the bible puts it the best.....love your fellowman, forgive him, 'put up with each other',WERE ALL GEEKY in someones eyes!

    To me this makes sense. Man to have a rulebook, guidbook, from the one who made him to answer questions as sleepy asked.

    If man uses his theory on how to handle things....do they work better than the bibles advise?

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    Gumby

    "Autistic people are nearest a genius.
    Would you say they are normal?"

    This is a point that should make creationists think.Even though not all autistic people have great talents some do.
    This is the result of what we would call a defect.
    This defect can cause the brain to have special skills.
    How do we know our current state of intelligense was not a "defect" of ealier humans?

  • gumby
    gumby

    How do we know our current state of intelligense was not a "defect" of ealier humans

    What earlier humans? I didn't know there was any.

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    There is evidence of humans living on this earth streaching back thousands of years.

    Think about this as well with autistic people who are highly skilled at a particular task there is no gradual change in performance.
    Their "defect" causes a jump in performance so there are better than normal.

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