The other sheep

by Truthexplorer 6 Replies latest jw friends

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  Truthexplorer

  Hi everyone,

  I Recently spoke to my mother and wife (separately) to explain what Jesus meant when he was talking in John Ch 10 about 'the other sheep'. For my wife, I wrote out in pencil and 'diagrammes' the explanation. She of course said I was criticizing the society. I said I wasnt criticizing the society, but was simply pointing out a TRUTH. I said to her that I didnt care for imperfect mens interpretatons (however sincere); that it is important to know what Jesus was truly trying to tell us. I then went into a lengthy explanation of John ch 10. Funny enough, my mother was easier to speak to on this topic, and I was quite surprised by her reaction as she can see no wrong with the teachings of the society.

  This is how I explained 'the other sheep' spoken of by Jesus in Jon Ch 10. Click on the link below.

  http://perimeno.ca/Other%20Sheep.htm

  All credit goes to Perimeno who has revealed this truth to me.

  Simply put

  The sheep that are in the pen as mentioned in John 10: 7 are 'natural Jews' from the lost sheep of Israel - from whome listen to Jesus voice - the ones whome Jesus was sent forth to preach to 'first'.

  John 10 : 16 - the other sheep, Jesus refers to are 'the gentiles' who later on listen to Jesus voice and also become followers.

  These two flocks of sheep ie Natural Jews who became Christians and gentiles who later on became Christians,- then join together to become one flock under one shepherd - Jesus Christ. For Jewish Christians - this would have taken a bit of time to getting used to (recall the circumcision issue).

  This would then mean - from Jesus death up until the present day, 144,000 holy one's have been and continue to be ,- selected - to rule as kings and priests to rule (with Christ) over the earth.

  Irrespective of whether a Christian is going to heaven or to reside here on earth, - Jesus is mediator to all Christians. That is why we can pray to our father (Y[J]ehovah) in heaven through Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins, because he (Jesus [Yeshua]) - is our mediator.

  I personally have decided to take the advice of perimeno and humbly stick with the household of God - Jehovah's Witnesses. Though, some of there teachings are incorrect, I believe for the most part that they have helped us to understand many truths; plus the fact that they are doing what Jesus asked of Christians and that is to preach the good news of the kingdom, which is the most important thing at this time. I do this as one of Jehovahs witnesses because I believe wholeheartedly in Gods word. All truth will be revealed shortly and all mistakes by imperfect men revealed. Stick with it brothers and sisters and dont be stumbled by some of the teachings of imperfect men and some of their unfair policies. Each of us will be judged according to our deeds; and that will especially include our leaders / teachers (James 3:1).

  Thanks for reading

  Christian love

  TE
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  Ding

  "Christendom" has understood the Gentiles as being the "other sheep" for centuries, and it's easy to find the biblical support for this view.

  Phase 1 of Jesus' ministry was to the lost sheep of Israel:

  Matthew 10:5-6: "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel."

  Despite this, he sometimes expanded his ministry to include Gentiles:

  Matthew 15:22-28: "A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the
  dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very
  hour."

  Phase 2 was the inclusion in the church of the Gentiles on the same basis as inclusion of the Jews -- faith in Christ.

  In Acts 10, the Holy Spirit commanded Peter to proclaim the gospel to Cornelius, a Gentile and a Roman soldier.

  In Acts 11, the other apostles called Peter on the carpet for what he did, and when he related the story, they were astonished to learn that God was also granting the Gentiles the opportunity to become Christians and receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit:

  Acts 11:17-18: "So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" 18 When they heard this, they had no
  further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
  
  Paul also acknowledges that this inclusion of the Gentiles was not fully revealed by God until the time of Christ and the apostles:

  Ephesians 2:11-16: "Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility."

  Ephesians 3:4-11: "In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been
  revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers
  together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all
  God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."
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  Truthexplorer

  Ding - Amen to everything you wrote.

  TE
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  Awen

  It has been my understanding for some time that since the beginning of Christ's ministry all person's have had a two-fold hope which is dependent upon how they receive the message and how they act upon it.

  Matthew 7:21

  Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.

  2 Peter 3:13 "But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."

  The class distinctions are purely a JW invention. All persons should partake of the memorial emblems as they await Christ's return. Being selected as part of the "little flock" or anointed does not somehow make a person better than someone who has not been selected, but rather lays a bigger responsibility upon them. Those who are "anointed" have no guarantee of getting into heaven, they merely have a token of a possibility of such. The decision isn't made until right before the Great Tribulation starts when they are "sealed" right before their deaths.

  J.F. Rutherford's speech was merely an attempt to substantiate the GB's hold over the organization and put forth the notion that the "other sheep" should be in subjection to the Org, since only the GB had the holy spirit in a way that the Other sheep did not. This was a purely political move and not one backed by the scriptures.

  According to the above scriptures, not all person's living in the first century or since were of the 144,000, otherwise why mention the new earth? As the years went by, some person's would be chosen and out of those chosen, if they proved faithful to death, would receive their "crown of life". With the appearance of the "New Anointed" it becomes clear that the number hasn't been fulfilled, despite the GB's saying otherwise. Jesus mentions this occurrence at Matthew 20:1-16 which I feel is not only a parable, but a prophecy of our modern times:

  Matthew 20
  The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

  1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

  3 "About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5 So they went.

  "He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

  7 "‘Because no one has hired us,' they answered.

  "He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.'

  8 "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

  9 "The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

  13 "But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

  16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

  To me, the new anointed represent those ones who were hired last and the attitude of the GB represents the attitude of those who were hired first. It's not our place to determine who should be paid what, but to just be thankful the work is done and to receive whatever payment Jesus deems worthy of our work for him in the "vineyard" of this earth.

  It's noteworthy to mention Jesus' attitude towards those who do not receive their brothers with joy and who persecute them for questioning WT doctrine, especially when it questions the 1914 date and the NGO fiasco:

  Matthew 24:48-51 (New International Version)

  48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,' 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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  designs

  Truthexplorer- what if everything about 'christiainity' were a contrived explanation of reality and what is needed for a normal healthy life.
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  ProdigalSon

  I always wondered how kings and priests up in heaven, and lowly biological creatures here on earth could be "one flock".

  Just think, in the new system, there's no need for disfellowshipping, because the earth is one big Kingdom Hall. Do you think they'll do stoning, public hangings, or firing squads?

  ~PS
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  designs

  check out "Going To The Kingdom Hall" by Van Morrison from the Wave Length Album