Request Help in JWs supporting US consititution

hawkaw

Question:

Is there any Watchtower article or doctine that allows a Witness to sign any document which requires as part of signing the document that the Witness must protect and up hold a consitution (eg. US constitution)?

I am aware that a JW in the USA can strike out the oath part on a passport application and still receive a Passport as per the July 22, 1975 (27-8) Awake! article titled "What Is the Bible’s View? The Taking of Oaths".

I am also where that according to this same article one cannot knowing show support or pledge alligence to a government constitution if there are things in it that a Christian would object too - am I right?

I am looking forward to your answers.

hawk

freeman

I don’t know the answer to the specific question you are asking, however you may find it interesting that the INS has created a special oath just for Witnesses being sworn in as new citizens. I believe it avoids such wording as ‘defend and uphold the Constitution’ and replaces it with something to the effect of pledging to obey the laws of the US.

Freeman

hawkaw

This is what was stated in a Sept. 15, 1964 Watchtower article titled "Are You a Loyal Christian?"

....Loyalty is also required of Christians in their relations to the “superior authorities,” the governments of this world. But this is a relative loyalty, circumscribed by your loyalty to God. Because Christians can be loyal both to God and to earthly governments they can take oaths of allegiance to defend the Constitution, as is required of citizens in some countries in order to get a passport. The principle involved in all this is the one stated by Jesus: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”—Mark 12:17.....

But I think the later 1975 article seems to clarify the stance.

hawk

hawkaw

Anymore comments?

hawk

anewperson

here's a thought for you. if you can show the org acts against or does not benefit human society or its own members then it may be possible to get its tax exempt status as a nonprofit org removed. what if it lost its charters of incorporation for Pennsylvania & NY for example? does the wts endanger the lives of anyone? does the wts take from rather than give to its members & society? does it deny constitutionally guaranteed rights such as voting? see.

freeman

I have a question. If a Christian can be loyal both to God and to earthly governments and can take oaths of allegiance to defend the Constitution, why can’t a Christian, (using the same principle) recite the pledge of allegiance? Do you see the contradiction? I dare a dub loyalist to explain this. No make that, I double-dog-dare any dub to explain this contradiction.

Freeman

Room 215

Hi freeman,

Your post offers another sterling example of how the enlightened tolerant U.S. government will bend over bakcwards to respect the convictions of even the whackiest of religions. The INS concession for prospective U.S. citizens who happen to be JWs is just one example.

As I've said in several previous posts, whenever I see such scrupulous offical respect for religion freedom by the judiciary or by any other government agency which saeguards JWs and a host of cults at the margin of society, I chuckle at the recollection of Judge Rutherford's declaration to Hitler in 1933 (published in the 1934 Yearbook) that the ``Anglo-American power is the most oppressive on earth.''

And if that wasn't enough, he went on to add the ``cherry on the cask' by stating that his JW-style Theocracy and the Fuhrer's brand of Nazism shared the same goals and objectives.

Of course, allegiance to the flag and to the constitution are a distinction without a difference. The big difference is that the oath to the constitution is done privately, away from general view, whereas the pledge of allegiance always takes place in a highly visible, public venue, all the better for the JW to make a spectacle of him/herself. They love to be noticed as different -- ti feeds their martyr complex -- and can't stand it when they're ignored.

hawkaw

Anymore comments?

hawk

Request Help in JWs supporting US consititution

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