Punchdown arguments at the JW religion

bottleofwater

What points are there that can refute the JW religion is one fell swoop? Those that can't be truthfully refuted...

To a true believer, there probably aren't any. They will hear what they want to hear, applying rote refutations to the arguments they have been prepared for, and dismissing the rest as "apostate nonsense".

To a non-believer, there are many persuasive arguments: 607BC, 1874, 1914, 1975, the great pyramid, every "new light" reversal, the "millions now living" who died after all, John 1, John 6, YHWH = Yahweh, and many more.

Arguing these points with a true believer gets you nowhere: you won't convince them until they are ready to be convinced, when they have doffed the "true believer" blindfold of their own accord. If you're trying to convince your family or friends, it's better to keep on loving them--don't feed a "persecution complex" by arguing facts with somebody who isn't interested in hearing them. That often backfires, driving further into the clutches of a high-control group.

In other words, there's no point playing along with their game, using their tactics, by their rules.

OUTLAW

#1.."Tell them to show you the word "Organization" in the Bible"......The word Organization isn`t in the Bible..

#2.."Prove 1914..Using only the Bible"......It can`t be done..

Thats usually enough,to really piss them off..

LOL!!..

.................. ...OUTLAW

Black Sheep

It's not just the question that is important, it's taking control of the subject and not giving them any way out.

I've asked my Dubs for a list of years of the Babylonian Empire, showing which kings reigns in each year.

None of them have showed me one.

If they want to talk religion, I ask for my list. I ask why they haven't done it yet. I point out that they have had plenty of time. If they try to change the subject in any way, I accuse them of trying to fool me by changing the subject.

A common trick is to ask "Why is it important?" They already know. They just want a subject change. They especially want you to say something that they can use to attack your motives or character.

Control the subject at all times. When a Dub asks you a question ..... do not open your mouth until you have asked yourself ......... "Is that an answer to MY question?"

If they make a statement that you suspect is wrong, make them promise to back it up with the appropriate paperwork, right now is best, if impossible then within a week. A mistake I have seen many times, is people taking their word for something, then trying to find out where they got it from, only to find out it doesn't exist. The Dub has missed out on the embarrassment of not being able to prove it, or being contradicted by his own Bible or literature. If they are correct, you haven't lost face, because you didn't make a statement, you only asked for proof of theirs.

If you are going to show your Dub someting that contradicts them, make sure it is from a source they trust, Bible, WT, or something they quoted from, and then make them read it to you.

MrFreeze

The one I like to use is 607. It's the most damning of all refutations of JW's. It doesn't matter. True believers will just ignore it.

tec

Well, I would think it would be to ask them questions about the bible, where their magazines and teachings are in conflict.

Such as Judas not being at the last supper. The account in John shows that he was absolutely there. The return of the prodigal son is completely in conflict with their reinstatement process - how do they justify their claim of following the bible 100%, and yet disregard that? Even judging whether or not someone is truly repentant is in conflict with Jesus' command that we are to forgive one another, even up to 77 times (as he told Peter). The memorial is not biblical either... there was no one watching the apostles share the bread/wine... and then passing it over if it is offered to them.

"Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood - you have NO life within you."

Condemning most of Christianity for 'going beyond what is written' to believe in the trinity, and yet doing the exact same thing to say that Jesus is Michael.

I'm sure I can think of others but those are off the top of my head. I would guess that you best have the scriptures handy if you ever brought this up with a witness though, so they can see it with their own eyes.

Tammy

garyneal

Personally, I tell witnesses that if they want to make a believer out of me, prove to me their selection in 1919. While the blood doctrine makes no sense what-so-ever, I would take the Society for its word (fractions and all) if they can prove the selection in 1919. After all, if the authority they claim to have can truly be proven, what else is needed right?

wobble

garyneal has hit on the silver bullet question," what unique teaching did they have, that is still taught as truth today, that made Jesus choose them in 1919 ?"

Jw's will waffle around this in many ways, first of all talking about what they did not teach, trinity etc, and then saying "they were giving food at the proper time" etc. or "look at the growth since". Do not get deflected, do not answer these spurious and false points, or any similar they may mention.

The point is, if Jesus did not choose them in 1919, then the GB of today are self appointed charlatans and liars. So, what Christian could in all conscience associate with them ?

And why should Jesus choose them ? Where is the proof from what they were teaching then ? (They did not have any such teaching, to say Jesus chose them on the basis of what they were teaching and doing then is an insult to Jesus)

As Black Sheep says,and it is the best piece of advice on JWN for how to open a JW's eyes, stick to the one question, do not let it go until they have answered it.