First Aid, Witnesses and Principles of the good samaritan

by Married to the Mob 7 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  Married to the Mob

  There is another thread on here regarding elders and CPR.

  Having read the thread and not wishing to hijack it some thoughts struck me.

  In most places in North America you don't have a legal duty to help someone in need if you are a first aider. To aid this there are the principles of the good samaritan. These are identified by the St John ambulance as:

  Consent - identifying yourself and getting permission to help the person before you touch them

  Reasonable skill and care - acting accordingly to the level of skill and knowlege you have

  Negligence - using common sense and making sure your actions are in the best interest of the casualty

  Abandonment - never leaving a casulty in your care, staying with them till medical help arrives.

  They continue to say that you are the good smaritan if you give help with no legal duty to provide help and that you expect no reward. Ie your doing because you care about the person and not for another reason.

  Based on this how many witnesses are qualified in CPR and used the legal protection of the good samaritan?

  How do they reconcile the basis of the good samaritan identified by SJA and that identifed by the WBTS who only helps witnesses? (Hati and Italy earthquakes come to mind?) Helping someone with the intent of converting them is NOT being a good samaritan!

  Now here comes the tricky bit where legals come into play.

  In the workplace and under quebec charter of human rights and freedoms you MUST help someone who's life is in danger provided you don't put yourself or others in danger. (Spritual danger I don't think washes here!)

  How does a witness deal with that? Df's and DA's can't be helped? Legally they must be if you worked with them or you live in quecbec.

  More so if you were the designated first aider for a KH, wouldn't you be legally bound to help the person no matter what their status with the dubs?

  As the principles of the SJA clash with the rules of the WBTS on shunning

  Which prevails? Life or the law of the WBTS?
• 

  Awen

  Here in America (and I speak as a former Firefighter), if you have First responder training or are a Police Officer, Firefighter, EMT, Paramedic or Nurse and you bypass the scene of an accident without rendering aid, and are caught you can be helf leagally responsible.

  This supercedes, imo, anything the WTBS has to say about it. Just as Jesus said that "the sabbath came into being for the sake of man and not man for the sake of the sabbath" (meaning laws could be broken if a life was at stake)

  In America, the Good Samaritan laws protects those without first aid training who, in an attempt to help someone, actually causes harm. It also punishes those who have medical training but through the course of their actions cause an individual to be harmed.

  I recall this story of an EMT in my area who happened upon a car wreck. The man driving the car had not been wearing his seat belt and had fell upon the steering wheel of his car, crushing his windpipe at the base of his neck. Because of this he was slowly suffocating. Only a tracheotomy would save his life. So the EMT took his ball point pen and stabbed the man through the larynx, then removed the top and innermost parts of the pen (while holding it in place) which allowed the man to breathe through the now hollow ball point pen. The EMT called for assistance and when they arrived, he left. The EMT was later sued by the man for this procedure as in my state a tracheotomy can only be performed by a doctor. So despite saving the man's life, the EMT was sued for his Good Samaritan act.

  Another man happened upon a rolled over vehicle which was spilling gasoline everwhere. Worrying that an explosion was iminent, the Good Samaritan put his own life in danger and pulled the victim from the car, rather forcibly. What he didn't know was the man had several broken vertebrae in his back as a result of the rollover and his being removed without a backboard made his injuries worse. But because the GS had no medical training and no way of knowing this, he was not held liable for further injuring the victim. he was exonerated of any wrong doing.

  So it depends.

  For me, I would do the right thing and help anyone, JW or not. Love is more important than a law, which in my opinion Jesus clearly showed whn he healed people on the Sabbath, something the religious leaders of his day condemned because it was against the Law of Moses.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Pls excuse my confusion. Do the Witnesses actually teach people not to offer aid? Good Samaritan law always confused me in law school. I suppose I was always in a rush to learn more pressing matters. A Good Samaritan would be determine by the law of the jurisdiction, not an org. My view is that in emergencies you are better off risking negligence than not having any assistance. What about gross negligence, though?

  What confuses me if Good Samaritan protections are as broad as people say, why people definitely hesitate to give aid. I am a NYer and lived downton on 9/11. Paid first responders are different. I lost half my local fire house there and several police officers. No one knew the buildings would fall. Some people just respond instinctively. It seems to be a matter of instinct and family upbringing. Strangers have helped me after an auto accident. Ppl in NY helped both my mother and myself in crisis.

  I hope that if the need arises, I will come forward. One never knows until faced with the choice.
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  Amelia Ashton

  In my experience when faced with life and death circumstances instinct kicks. Normal thinking stops, time slows down and you do what is necessary to save that life, regardless of who they are.
• 

  Married to the Mob

  Thanks for your answers guys, as I have never been a witness (but married to one) I am confused how some rules can be flouted and others seem so hard set.

  Whilst DF and Da are shunned, one would hope that if they needed first aid, a witness would help. Could they really stand there and do nothing? yet in doing so they would be breaking the laws of the WBTS

  If they break this law to save a life?

  Why can't they break other WBTS laws to save a life?
• 

  TD

  Love is more important than a law, which in my opinion Jesus clearly showed whn he healed people on the Sabbath, something the religious leaders of his day condemned because it was against the Law of Moses.

  I don't think I'm ever going to understand why people keep saying this...

  Rather than hijack this thread, I'll start a new topic
• 

  InterestedOne

  Whilst DF and Da are shunned, one would hope that if they needed first aid, a witness would help. Could they really stand there and do nothing? yet in doing so they would be breaking the laws of the WBTS

  I never heard witnesses say they wouldn't help a df or da if they were in physical danger. At a meeting a couple months ago, from the platform, the elder said if a df or da was broken down on the side of the road with a flat tire, a JW would still help change the tire. My impression is that the gist of the df/da rule is that JW's refuse to discuss spiritual/doctrinal matters with df/da people, and they also avoid social/emotional interaction with them. Although I think this rule is harmful, I don't think it applies to helping someone in physical need. Am I mistaken?
• 

  Awen

  I have known JW's who would refuse to help Dfed and DAed people, yet complain when they themselves weren't helped. It seems to me that DFed people have more compassion than JW's in good standing and will help anyone.

  What I thought odd about this attitude is a JW is more likely to help a non-JW than someone who was DFed....I mean what's the difference?

  A person in need is a person in need, it shouldn't matter who they are or what they once were, JW or not.