A (possibly dumb) question for AlanF...

by ianao 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • ianao
    ianao

    AlanF, in a previous post in the 'AlanF et al, a little help please!...' thread said:

    In order to protect itself from legal repercussions, the Society has to maintain the fiction that it is not involved in DF'ings and such, that such things are done purely at the local level. Therefore elders can expect no legal help from the Society if they're personally hit with a lawsuit. If anyone can prove a connection, the Society is toast, so unless the issue directly involves WTS interests, elders are on their own.

    AlanF, I am curious to know how the society manages to involve itself with DF'ings, etc. besides the obvious mandadates set forth in the 'flock' book. Or, have I actually just answered the question myself?

  • BATHORY
    BATHORY

    sheeeesh, for a jedi........ , dude your pretty um...well i guess all questions deserve a reasonable explanation atte,pt. Ill pass you over to al

  • orangefatcat
    orangefatcat

    I don't figure, doesn't the WTBS print up disfellowshipping forms?
    And of couse they do, so why shouldn't they be libel,isn't it like aide and abet.

    PROCRASTINATION IS THE THIEF OF TIME !!

  • ianao
    ianao

    Hey BATHORY I was never a witness so cut me some slack. Or actually, kiss my ass.

    Thank you orangefatcat on your thoughts re: disfellowshipping forms. It seems to me that they *are* libel. I'm no attorney though, so I don't know about any legal loopholes preventing a connection between WT and local congs.

  • JanH
    JanH

    The DFing form is simply a message from the local elders that so-and-so has been DFd. In "reason" (or whatever it was) they are to give no information except a Bible scripture. No indication is given anywhere that the WTS has been involved in the process.

    - Jan
    --
    The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.

  • ianao
    ianao

    Thanks for the info JanH. I see how they can skirt liability by using simple bible scriptures.

    So if the society prints these forms and not the local cong, and if they send the forms back to the society, doesn't that prove a connection between the two? I mean, there had to be an oral or written agreement somewhere that gets form A from hq to local cong, then local cong back to hq.

    On the other hand, if the forms are printed up by the local congs, isn't their some procedure, rather written or oral that they are following to carry this out? Can this not be used as proof of a connection?

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Ianao: There are several connections, some direct and some indirect:

    The indirect connection is that the Society sets forth in the "Organization" Book the qualificatons for Elders and the atandards by which they direct Elders to form and hold Judicial Committees. The Society, through its direct representative, the Circuit Overseer, Appoints Elders, and threfore, they can be considered "Agents in Fact" under the laws of agency in each State.

    Further, the Society Trains Elders at Kingdom Ministry School, where they issue the FLOCK book and follow-up notes and instructions to be added to that book. These instructions include legal, financial and Judicial matters to be "strictly" followed. This Training is advanced by the "visits" and meetings the Circuit and District Overseers have with the Eldrs at Kingdom Halls and at Assemblies and Conventions.

    The Society directly corresponds with each "Body of Elders" and thus the term "BOE" letter. These letters direct Elders on all matters pertaining to legal, financial, organizational, and Judicial activities related to DFing and DA.

    The Society church government is by law, a "heirarchial" organization which means that they have a direct organizational control over each congregation and its ELders ... and the Society also assigns Elders via the CO to their "Official" positions such as the PO. Each Congregation is registered with the Society and has a corresponding Congregation Number.

    Judicial Appeals are often directed to the Circuit Overseer as the Society's Representative (Agent) to appoint other Elders to hear such Judicial cases. If this fails the "accused" can APPEAL to the Society, thus making them the last in the chain of Judicial Discipline including but not limited to Disfellowshipping. Ther Society can uphold or overturn any local decision, thus making them THE established authority.

    Finally, a JW about to be DF'd can write to the Watchtower Society, and their Legal Department will represent both the Soceity and the Elders as their "Clients" thus making the Watchtower Society "Agent in Fact" for the Elders. This riciprocal "agency" is mutual and at the sole control of the Watch Tower Society.

    The Watchtower Society also has the sole and exclusive right to remove any Elder over and above the objections of any subordinates in the chain of command. The Society can "Appoint" in the same manner, and by-pass local Elders and CO's.

    Any removal or appointment of an Elder must be recorded with the Society as well as receive their documented acceptance of such action. Without the "Red" line or "Green" check mark on the Circuit Overseers form from the Society followed by the Society's "Official" signature, Elders cannot be appointed or removed.

    Last but NOT LEAST, is that the local congregation Elders must notify the Society via Watch Tower forms that a person has been DF'd, DA'd, or Reinstated ... and these records are maintained by the Society ... and the Society sends back a confirmation ... and if the Society reviews its files, it can without notice, overturn any such Judicial Decisions, and return the form to the local Cngregation with a Letter stating how they have acted to Veto local decisions.

    Therefore, all Judicial Action is "In Fact" at the direction, training, instruction and discretion and CONTROL of the Watchtower Bible and Tracy Society of New York, Inc, its Governing Body, and the newly created Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness, Inc. along with the Branch and Service Departments.

    The "LINK" is inseparable, continuous, and meets the standards of the Law of Agency. Hence, that is why the recent civil lawsuits can be filed regarding molestation victims against the world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses, aka Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc and all its subsidary and subrodinate organizations, including the local Elders as Co-Defendants.

    Anyone who wished to establish a solid documented "link" were they about to be Disfellowshipped, should visit with an attorney and have their attorney contact the Watchtower Legal Department and the Local Elders via Certified Letter. Once the Society attorneys respond, then this method will prove and established relationship. The Society will take control. All other documentation and books cited above will be supporting evidence that in fact the Watchtower Society controls and directs the staus of Disfellowshiped persons among Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • ianao
    ianao

    Simply Amazing.

    I think you've covered everything I was curious about. I guess the only thing holding back folks for holding the society responsible for certain damaging policies is knowledge, money, and time.

    Thanks!

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