Can you answer this please?

sleepy

Yesturday my wife bumped into one of our former friends from the hall.
She tried to discuss a few points with him but as she hasn't done much research herself was a bit stuck when he told her that the reason the society dates the fall of babylon to 607 was because the jews were in captivity for 70 years which working back from 537 you come to 607.
I tried to explain to her that the bible does not specifically say the jews would be in captivity for 70 years but that in Daniel it talks of the devestaions of Jerusalem ,which could mean it rulership by Babylon which started before they were taken captive.
Beside that isn't it true that people were left over in Jerusalem and only the elite taken?
Anyway at the end of 2 Chronicals particually verse 21 it talks of the land laying desolate 70 years this would sujest that the 70 years maybe did refer to the desrution of jerusalem.
Can anyone point me in the right direction on this?
By the way this has no bearing on what I think just my wife as i don't believe the bible to be the word of God anyway, and there are far bigger problems with the witnesses time prophecies , I just need to show from the bible it is wrong as that is the only source of authority for some people.

Carmel

can't really help you sleepy on your question, but had to ask, are you trying to convince yourself the bible is wrong or the dubby exigesis?

carm

Mr Rocky

Huge question sleepy, if you want the latest on this read: "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof Jonsson. Aside from reading this you can look in any encyclopedia and see that Jerusalem and temple was destroyed in 586 b.c. by the Babylonians. This being the 18 year of Nebuchadnezzar,Daniel chap. 1 shows that Daniel had already been taken captive to babylon in the first year of Neb. because chap.2 is the second year of Neb.

Shar

I've just recently discovered this forum, so I haven't contributed before. I would like to share a website I found recently that has much info regarding your question. The website is www.607v587.com Hope this helps! Shar

Ivor Hope

Sleepy, I can't help you out with your specific question, but the site Shar mentioned definately will.

Just as a side point it may interest you to know that in his book, "Millions Now Living WILL Never Die" Rutherford said the fall of Jerusalem was 606 BC. He said that this date was definately and positively correct beyond any doubt, and therefore, applying the various prophecies took the end of the gentile times to 1914.

Starngely enough, when the WTS realised they had calculated the 2620 (or whatever the figure was) they made a mistake! They had forgotton there wasn't a Zero year. So what should have happened was that 1914 should have become 1915. Of course, so much jad been said about 1914 by this time that the Society was faced with a major problem! They solved it in true Watchtower style. Rather than move 1914 one year forward they simply re-wrote history and said Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE.

It's simple when you know how!!

ElijahTheThird

Then again you could think about the dates for the most part as a moot point now. Since jesus fortold that the Jews would be trampled on by the nations till the end. It was also fortold they would get their lands back and become a nation again. Done.1947

As a first world country with atomic weapons and sufficent enough streangth to be a threat to any nation on earth today,,, any one want to mess with the Jews? But they have always fought amongst themselves, just as brothers do. *laffs*

In my honest opinion, it seems that we ARE in those days as was fortold. After all, those fortellings are now history, and in our OWN generation!

Norval

Carmel

Sorry Elijah old buddy. Israel became a nation in 1948. You and Da Judge both missed.

carm

ElijahTheThird

,,, yeah yeah, I know i always get that date wrong for some reason,, it is 1948,,, but it still sticks!

Norval

Larsguy

In answer to your question, you must realize that there was a conspiracy to revise this part of ancient history as is usual and thus you have conflicting references.

The MOST CRITICAL reference would be that of Josephus, however, where in Antiquities 11.1.1 he clearly indicates a 70-year desolation period beginning at the time of the last deportation.

So that's where you should start. Simply put that reference completely contradicts the secular dating for the fall of Jerusalem in 607BCE or especially 587BCE which does not allow enough time for this 70-year period beginning the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar which was the year of the last deportation (Jer. 52:30).

People interpret the Bible differently, of course, but 2 Chronicles references a 70-year desolation of the land to pay back sabbaths which if it began at the time of the last deportation would correspond to the same 70 years of "servitude" that Josephus speaks of for the "poor people" who were finally deported that year. Further, Josephus SPECIFICALLY applies the fulfillment of that prophecy by Jeremiah's 70 years to this 70-year period of "servitude" of these people.

Now once you realize this reference is here and contradicts the secular history, you'll realize that there is no simple answer to your question. But of note, Carl Jonsson's bok about the chronology for this period DOES NOT ADDRESS this reference!!! So his views about what the secular references are may be right on the money, but it will be Josephus vs Babylonian records. Problem is, just a little research will show you immediately that the critical records for this period, namely the astronomical texts, were all destroyed and all the "new chronology" can be dated to the Seleucid period, including the famous VAT4956 text which astronomically dates the 37th year of Neb-2 to 568BCE in support of the 587BCE chronology. But this document can be immediately dismissed as fraudulent and presumed a revised document since it is not a contemporary document, and in fact, lends support to the fact that this chronology was revised by the Persians well after the fact.

The fact that COJ does not address this reference in Josephus tends to discredit his discussion as being biased toward the secular records.

At any rate, there is NO CHOICE but to interpret the scriptures as establishing a literal 70 years of desolation beginning with the last deportation when Josephus, a Jewish historian, directly states that, leaving the "interpretation" of the Bible's 70 years off the table.

You can accept whatever chronology you are convinced is most reliable but it matters not. What matters is that there is MORE THAN ONE secular source referencing these 70 years and somebody is lying. The pagans changed their chronology all the time for political reasons...the Jews followed a strict rule of inspired records; so you decide.

Cheerio,
L.G.

compton

Hello
Thats good info at 587v607 site. most Bibles today state Jerusalem fell in 587BC.
Apparently the Babylonians carried off Jehoichin the king before the fall of Jerusalem
and it didnt fall till later. you will find lots of proof from that website (607 v 587 ).
Remember Jesus was talking to the Jews, when he gave the prophecy of the time of the end.
and 2520-587=1933 (a time of trouble )(Hitler assumed power that year, the start of the
third Riech+ 6 Million Jews would be murdered. Now they are safely back in Palestine
all sorts of Prophecies are beng fulfilled.

Can you answer this please?

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