blood - a different approach

by inbetween 9 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    As often discussed here and on other places, there are many good arguments against the WTS blood policy. Basically the distinction between what is a component and what a fraction, is often , and right so, target of critisicm. However, it can get confusing, especially when apologists like thirdwitness or standfirm argue for any spot of reasonableness in it. Many dubs may scare away from an indepth discussion, and just let the WTS think for them ("they researched it anyway, and know better than we, after all we are to trust our leadership"). Therefore, maybe another approach may help.

    Lets just say, for arguments sake, the commandment to abstain from blood really includes blood transfusions.

    The WTS often argues, that is is better to loose ones life and stay faithful, than to break Gods law, therefore stay alive, but loose Gods favour. As example often those martyr Christains of ancient times are mentioned, who did not compromise their faith and rather died.

    Lets analyse, if this is really consistent and logical:

    1) When Christains in old times were faced with the possibility to loose their life it was always when enemies of them tried to force them to loose their integrity. Their loyalty to Goid was questioned by opposers. The issue was, whether they fear men or God. Those men persecuted them, and their faith was challenged.

    However, regarding blood transfusions, this analogy fails. If you get in an accident or have a complex surgery, the medical stuff does not try to break your faith or to persecute you. They simply do what their profession is, to safe your life, to help you. They do not care what kind of faith you have, they do not require any kind of worship from you, they just want to help ! No comparison to heathen or wicked opposers.

    2) No doubt, for a Christain, to keep the commandments of God, it is very important, if not most important in life. However, does it mean, that any commandment is absolute with no exception ? Example, a clear commandment is not to kill another person. What if you act in self defense ? Lets say you have no choice other than protect yourself than to kill the aggressor ? Did you still overstep the commandment not to kill ? Even WTS acknowledges that when you had no other option (like running away etc), acting in self defense to protect your life is allowed. Therefore even witnesses can be police with carrying a gun. Though they will have no privilege, they will noit be dfd for it. So why is it then forbidden to take a blood transfusion, if its the only means to save your life ?

    3) Whats the point of any commandment of God ? How did Jesus view Gods laws, as absolute commandment, with no reasonings or exceptions whatsoever ? What about the account about the woman with the blood flow ? She clealry overstepped the letter of the law, by approaching Jesus. However, Jesus did not rebuke her, because following the letter of the law would have, in this case, violated the intention of the law. The intention was for hygenical reasons, that a woman with blood flow has to be seperated from others. However, if she kept the letter of the law, she would not have been healed, and therefore always pose a risk to herself and others. What the reason fo the blood prohibition ? To view blood as carrying the life, and therefore sacred. It should not be misused. However, what if life is lost, because of clinging to the letter of the law ? Is than not also the intention of the law violated ?

    Sorry I dont have my cd-rom at work, so I cannot include references atm, the WTS stance is more or less from memory. I´ll try to provide exact quotes on a later time. Just wanted to know your opinions. I f there are weaknesses in my reasoning, please feel free to spot them. Its appreciated.

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    My take on the blood issue is as follows;

    Laws on Blood in the OT invariably revolved around the proper disposal of blood. Also, being a symbol of the life that a creature once enjoyed only had significance when that life had expired . . . ie; poured out on the ground symbolically returning the life to God.

    To illustrate . . . if an Israelite under law were to syphon collectible amounts of blood from his animals while still preserving them alive . . . for the purpose of an offering . . . what value would that blood have? . . . none at all . . . the "life" it represented would still be in the animal . . . walking the earth . . .alive. Check all the scriptures on blood . . . you will see this understanding coming through time after time via the scriptures.

    The implications for using transfused blood are simple and obvious . . . donated human blood from a living donor has no spiritual significance at all . . . it does not symbolise the life from whence it came . . for the life WT claims it symbolises remains in the donor.

    WT has it all wrong at first base . . . as you can see it makes all this childish nonsense about blood fractions etc etc (ad nauseum) totally redundant.

    The Mosaic law required violators who consumed blood in, say an emergency, to simply wash thier garments and remain ceremonially unclean till the evening. It was/is a symbolic reminder of who is the author and owner of life . . . not some "magic fluid" of itself.

    The only area for misconception of this understanding was the decision handed down in Acts 15. The situation here was simply a concession to the jews (in return for allowing Gentiles to keep thier foreskins) for the sake of peace and is in fact an outdated imposition by the older men in keeping with the Law of Moses which the Jews found almost impossible to let go of entirely . . . check the context thoroughly . . . it is a concession and by no means meant to be binding on Christians till the end of time.

    The early Christians had the same penchant for rules . . . for they were babes as to matters of conscience. I'm sure you can think of other examples where this situation created problems.

    The whole principle of respect for blood was to engender respect for life . . . a purpose which the WT has sucessfully managed to spin through 180 degrees so as to perpetrate unnecessary slaughter.

    Hope this makes sense . . . but I've yet to see this understanding successfully challenged . . . run with it for a while and see where you go with it.

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    I forgot to add inbetween, that all of your reasoning is absolutely spot on . . . and if you superimpose the above understanding over your quite valid observations, you will soon see that it satisfies all of those concerns

  • MrMonroe
    MrMonroe

    @Inbetween, the WTS regards the mere offer of blood transfusions in a life-and-death situation as a direct attack by Satan. Opposition to God, in fact.

    The faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses is under attack from all sides—by the clergy of Christendom who hate the Kingdom message we take from house to house, by apostates who collaborate with Christendom’s clergy, by medical authorities who want to impose blood transfusions on us and our children, by atheistic scientists who reject belief in God and the creation, and by those who try to force us to compromise our neutrality. All this opposition is orchestrated by Satan, the ruler of darkness and ignorance, the enemy of accurate knowledge. - WT, December 1, 1989.

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    Murray smith: your reasoning regarding the blood is absolutely correct, however, it requires a little bit deeper understanding of the Mosaic Law, and I fear, it might be too "apostate" for close minded JW. On the other hand, I believe, there are so many different ways to refute the official blood doctrine, that it might help, to try different ones in opening the eyes of listening JW.

    Mr monroe: Thanks for the qoute, i had it somewhere in my mind too, therefore, my argument 1) was especially directed towards this. Its soo ridicolous, even before I started to wake up, I could not really accept this reasoning.

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    Sheeeite! . . . Mr M, I should 've had a couple more pints before I read that!

    I'd been dipped about 6 years before that WT . . . reading it now fair makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up! (shudder)

    I can't remember feeling THAT much under seige . . . I don't believe a word of it of course . . . but it's still a little unnerving

    And we filled out our little cards at the bookstudy . . . now those pints . . . .

  • wobble
    wobble

    Thank you Inbetween, and you other fine posters, this is truly a life saving thread, to cut through all the long discussion on the subject, and show quite clearly the TOTAL error at the heart of the teaching is a really valuable thing.

    Any active, or rather still believing , JW reading this will be prevented from sacrificing their or their childrens lives on the Alter to the Governing Body of JW's.

  • Listener
    Listener
    Murray Smith said
    The Mosaic law required violators who consumed blood in, say an emergency, to simply wash thier garments and remain ceremonially unclean till the evening. It was/is a symbolic reminder of who is the author and owner of life . . . not some "magic fluid" of itself.

    Would anyone know where in the bible this is mentioned.

    Excellant posts Inbetween and Murray Smith. I was going to say that that sort of reasoning should surely make a JW think but realize that would be a stupid statement as they are at the mercy of the GB.

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    Listener . . . read the whole of Lev;17. . . vs 15&16 cover the uncleanness factor and are seldom (if ever) included in WT quotes fron this chapter . . .

    Wobble is correct, I believe, in that you are most likely to succeed in countering JW BS by presenting sound scripture-based understanding and ask them to refute it . . . hell , I've done enough research on this without doing ALL the work FOR THEM.

    Simply countering thier beliefs in a piecemeal fashion comes across as weak and only gives them the opportunity to drag out thier favorite little WT debating hurdles which are designed to stifle true understanding not facilitate it.

    I think inbetweens real problem has less to do with logical discussion of the scriptural view of blood and more to do with how to sucessfully bang your head against a brick wall . . . and I haven't figured that one out yet . . . but I'm working on it gently.

    Mr M's quote highlights what your up against

  • alias
    alias

    bookmarked

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