1914: Jesus Chooses Jehovah's Church?

by Stargater 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Stargater
    Stargater

    To those who lurk, or to those on the brink of leaving the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses, try for a moment to put yourselves in the position of we who are not members. I just bought a book by a former JW, and while I really don't put much credence in the works of apostates I do know how to read in between the lines for things I know to be accurate. For example, I've read how Jesus, in 1914, inspected all of the world's religions and selected the Hari Krishnas...er...I'm sorry, the Jehovah's Witnesses...as the one true religion.

    To say the least, this sounds a little strange to the uninitiated. People should not be cruel or sarcastic to believers in my opinion, but sometimes the way the JWs come across to unbelievers it's a bit difficult to hold one's tongue. For those who have visited me in the past, they talk about other religions as being "man made" and they refer to other believers in Christ as "Christendom" -- which I have nothing against except when it's used in the pejorative sense.

    Paul writes that "in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established" (2 Cor. 13:1). In Moses' day, many saw the plagues he called down upon Egypt, but more importantly, we have this testimony: "Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink."

    In Jesus' day, the apostles and other disciples saw the risen Lord, and he ministered to them for 40 days following his resurrection.

    Sadly, though, there doesn't seem to be any witnesses of Jesus' choice of churches. In fact, the JWs are loath to use the term "church," and the leadership in various Kingdom Halls tends to be increasingly arbitrary. They establish the number of meetings, grooming, dress and so forth, all with no witnesses! Or do I have it wrong?

    I recently had a hard disk give out on me. I had backed up most of what I needed, but not everything. I found a company on the Internet (Spotmau) which claimed boldly that "any" hard disk which had failed could be made to work. The advertising was just what I was looking for. The only problem is, despite all the hoopla in the advertising, it didn't work! It found my partition, but not incredibly, the file manager failed to find my missing files. But it said it could! "Any" disk it said. Why pay for expensive data recovery it blared in the advertising!

    Anyone can make claims. And as anyone can tell, there's not a shread of evidence that Jesus went into heaven or picked any church in 1914 or any other year. It's much like transubstantiation in the Catholic Church. One takes the emblems of our Lord and they transubstantiate into the Lord's body and blood. It's a miracle! It's much like the fastest gun in the West routine.

    Wanna see it again??

    If there are any believers out there, I'd like to hear your views, and again we should be respectful to the beliefs of others. I'm just curious as to how anyone would know what Jesus did or did not do in 1914 or any other year. It's true that 1914 was a pivotal year in world history, but so was 1861 and 1776. In fact, many people see 1861 as a much more decisive year in world history. We should not think of the American "Civil War" as just a local event. Many saw it in other countries as the dividing line between how wars were fought and how they would be fought in the future.

  • alias
    alias

    This is such a good point, one that was tipping for me after I read Don Cameron's book Captive of a Concept.

    alias

  • wobble
    wobble

    Spot on Stargater,

    They have no proof at all for any choosing by Jesus that stands up to the slightest scrutiny.

    By the way, their claim is that Jesus chose them in 1918/9 , more usually it is claimed to be 1919.

    The reasons for this claim, and the "proof" offered for it, are arcane and difficult to obtain, you would be hard pressed to find any JW who could give you a good resume of why the claim is made, let alone make a good fist of defending the claim.

    And yet, the truth or not of this claim is vital to the validity of the religions present Governing Body, who inherit any right to authority and what they keep shrilly calling for, submission and obedience, from this supposed choosing.

    It is the religion's Achilles Heel, once examined the whole house of cards that they have conned 7 million in to believing is a solid edifice, comes a-tumbling down.

    Jesus chose no religion in1914, 1918, 1919 or any year in the 20th Century, his religion was established in the 1st Century, He has never chosen another, especially one as different from his own as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    Can't help you with your main point, but if you want to recover data from a hard drive; Recuva is what I use. It's freeware, and works even if you have formatted the disk. Helps to run Scandisk first.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    I tell people, if they ask, that I was raised in a bastardized form of Christianity I call "Jehovanism". JWs are "Jehovans". With this, they can do or say whatever they like... as long as it is approved by the Governing Body. Christ is slowly being replaced by this group of men in New York.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Welcome Stargater, I found this comment you made amusing

    "I just bought a book by a former JW"

    A lot of ex JWs throw their books out.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    The book is Tami Dickerson's book, THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TRUTH. I found it to be fairly boring when the author talks about her own life, but she pointed out some amazing things I didn't know which, if true, are sad commentaries on the religion. First, she maintains the JWs discourage higher education. If true, I can understand why there are no well known JW scholars of first century Christianity. It's also why their Bible translation is a bit of a bad joke among scholars of other religions. I also was unaware that visiting another church was an offense worthy of escommunication...or reading materials from other churches. And Dickerson says members aren't even supposed to give others rides to other churches.

    The way the church is established insulates against outside erosion. Members are forbidden outside contact, excommunicants are forbidden outside contact and internal contact. No office parties, no birthday parties, no holiday parties, no going out after work with unbelievers. Get caught and you were subjected to very arbitrary punishments. They also keep members busy. Turning in friends and family members are honorable attributes in that it shows one's loyalty to God over family and friends. Some members have been known to work covertly with elders to snatch miscreants in the faith. It makes communism look like kid stuff.

    If JWs did encourage higher education in the fields of archeology and ancient scripture, they would have conflicting views of doctrines like soul sleeping and Jehovah worship. First century Christians weren't Jehovah-oriented; they were Christ-oriented. And according to Methodist scholar Margaret Barker, Jehovah wasn't the father of Christ, to early Christians; he was Christ--the preexistent Christ. Jehovah was the great judge of mankind to the Christians and Jews, but Christians knew that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath commissioned all judgment unto the Son." Many Christians also believed in the premortality of man (which is an element of many near death experiences). And a number of other doctrines would be challenged, like the two classes of resurrected beings and other manufactured notions.

  • Stargater
    Stargater

    Yep, the year was wrong. But what's a few years amongst friends? I just find it very interesting...fascinating...that Witnesses fall for it. Jesus inspects the world's religions and chooses the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. And he made that known how? Was it the Pope? Or was it the hidden message in the Marian apparitions? Or perhaps it was the Orthodox Patriarch or the Mormon prophet? Or was it picked up by wire by the New York Times?

    No, it was reported by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society! Imagine the coincidence, the joy unfeigned, when Jesus announced it and only the WBTS managed to get it. But how was the joyous information transmitted when the Society said there was no revelation? They wrote repeatedly that they weren't inspired, that they weren't writers of scripture, yet somehow the great God of Heaven transmitted this information without revelation...without inspiration!

    Did it come by telegraph? Or Pony Express? The JW literature admits to making the occasional mistake (lots of them, really), but I find it suspicious when the news comes to one person without any witnesses whatsoever. Didn't the Lord say that in the mouth of two or three witnesses would every word be established? And didn't Amos say that surely the Lord God (Jehovah) would do nothing, save he revealed it unto his servants the prophets? The Organization says it is the latter-day "prophet," only it doesn't want to be held up the the same standards as the ancient prophets. But if they make mistakes, how do we know that the Jesus Report is accurate? Maybe he said "Catholics" or "Mormons" and they got it wrong. Maybe he didn't say anything. But if he did, there should be witnesses.

    I just get suspicious when religious people report that God picked them and there's no external evidence. I don't want to be difficult, but where am I wrong?

  • Joliette
    Joliette

    LMAO @ Heaven

    'Jehovahism' is the right word to describe it. And yes, Jesus is slowly being replaced by seven bozo bilingual guys in brooklyn.

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