A question, most probably for Christians, regarding what difference Jesus' existence has made.

by ThomasCovenant 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ThomasCovenant
    ThomasCovenant

    Hi,

    I was wondering what actually has changed for the human race since Jesus was born, lived and died on earth specifically with regard to those who were living prior to his earthly existence as opposed to after.

    Would it have made any difference if he had arrived in 3975 BC, or even if he hadn't yet arrived and was due to be born say in 2150 AD?

    I get the impression that Christians are very grateful that Jesus came and 'died for our sins' but what difference does it make if he wasn't even due yet? How is someone's earthly or heavenly (or helly) life changed? Are people born after 35 AD better off than those born before 3 BC?

    PS I am an atheist but was hoping some comments might help for me to appreciate an alternative viewpoint. I am not looking to ridicule.

  • Ding
    Ding

    The late Dr. James Kennedy wrote an entire book about this, which I commend to your consideration.

    I believe it's entitled, "What If Jesus Had Never Lived?"

    He goes into great deal about many topics, including how women, poor people, and people with social stigmas are treated.

    He discusses diverse areas such as science and the arts.

  • Perry
    Perry

    I don't know what it might have meant to others at different times, but getting born again has had a dramatic, positive and utterly exhilerating effect upon my life. It also brought a lot of pain.

    I never was disfellowshipped. I chose the reproach of Jesus knowing that it would cost never being able to speak to my JW mother or father again and that my children wouldn't know them or my brothers either. ... Or hundreds of other relatives also for that matter.

  • wobble
    wobble

    We are still waiting for the Messiah.

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    The Christ Consciousness arrived at the beginning of the Piscean Age because the Ascended Masters recognized it as an opportunity for a quantum spiritual advancement of the human race. Unfortunately, the virus that has infected humanity for thousands of years in the form of "Babylon the Great", the dark negative secret society elite did not allow that to happen. In mafia-like fashion, they killed everyone who would dare to teach mankind his potential, wouldn't play by their rules, or pay their extortion.

    I do believe, however, that the appearance of Christ and in fact the whole Christian Gnostic movement in the first century changed our direction just enough, and prevented this planet from eventually being blown up again. Jesus paid just enough karma for our immense cosmic debt to be forgiven. This should not be confused, however, with the idea of original sin.

    With the dawning of yet another new age, we have another opportunity, and this time we are not missing the bus. The Harmonic Convergence of 1987 eliminated any possibility of the literal fulfillment of "Armageddon". It is still, however, an intense personal battle that must be waged and won.

  • DJPoetech
    DJPoetech

    T.C.,

    I am not atheist but I respect their ability to look at ALL possible options. Even the hard to accept ones.

    The significance of Jesus coming when he did at the time he did takes some understanding of the religious atmosphere of the day. If there was a pendulum that swings from religious to secular, Jesus sits at the fulcrum.

    Before Jesus, there was a heavy reliance on all kinds of worship practices from emporor worship, ancestor worship, polytheism, and many types of pagan practices. The practices were integrated into the lives of the people to the point it wasn't even noticed. It just WAS. So if there were spiritual authorities taking advantage of townsfolk unduely, there existed no option except to accept whoever GOD supposedly placed into authority. Rising up against an authority traditionally meant direct death or a slow death by being put out of the community into the wild.

    We all know the story of how Jesus came about and what he did. Religion, though, fails to relate how Jesus' most notable statements took place outside of any religious organization. He spoke on a mount, in a boat, on hillsides. He was everywhere else spewing religious talk, instead of in the synagogs. Jesus spoke the worst about religious leadership, such as Pharisees. The only thing really Hebrew about Jesus was his mother's DNA.

    To stay in an atheist's perspective, we know that this is one small group of people in a big world, and one man in that small group. Nothing magical happened to mankind's brains or bodies when Jesus died. The pendulum swing toward a more secular society began and much of the world's religious properties consolidated itself into the Catholic Church, which itself maintained many years of political power and still does have a measure of that today.

    Many Christians forget that Jesus death gave us a unique ability to push off human authorities claiming to represent God. This would mean Church authorities as well. It is an OPTION that now exists that didn't before Jesus. You simply put faith in your belief of Jesus death. Once you are determined to make Jesus your authority, ALL other authorities can be questioned for their validity and motives as men on equal footing with yourself.

    Atheists see the advantage of pushing off religious authoritative fanaticism and they benefit from not having to deal with the mind games. Unfortunately it doesnt comfort them from the authorities on environmental issues, economic issues, war issues, or other world wide issues who may be doing the same things as their religious counterparts.

    Those putting faith in Jesus, since he is in heaven, have an authority that cannot be tainted by greed or other worldly advantages. At the simplest levels, he is a comfort but only if you believe that God's son died for you. Atheists also have the advantage of being free from religious tyranny, but not much else.

    Nothing magical happened over people when Jesus died. Simply an opportunity was presented that people can OPT-IN if they want it. If they dont, no harm no foul.

  • ThomasCovenant
    ThomasCovenant

    Thanks for the replies. I'm still a little confused though.

    According to Christian belief, all mankind has benefitted equally since Jesus' death.

    I assume that means all, as in, those who were dead before he came as well as all the people yet to be born.

    I hope I'm making myself clear here.

    If, therefore, those who were dead already have equally benefitted, then it doesn't seem to make any difference if he died in 33 AD or 3000 AD.

    If people who were born after his death have enjoyed a better life because of his death then would it not have been better for him to have died in 4000 BC?

    So far man has lived for (according to JW theology) just over 6000 years. 4000 were pre Christ and 2000 post. Plus whatever is to come in the future.

    Just my way of looking at things. I assume I'm missing something.

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