HELL ain't what it use to be! Pastor in trouble for doubting it!

by Terry 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    Faith Hell-Questioning Pastor Rob Bell Says New Book Has Led Him to ‘Profound Brokenness’

    Bell's recently-released book.

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Evangelical megachurch pastor Rob Bell said he did not anticipate the firestorm he would stir with his book that questions the traditional Christian belief that a select number of believers will spend eternity in heaven while everyone else is tormented in hell.

    Bell said Tuesday that he not only didn’t set out to be controversial, he had no idea his best seller, “Love Wins,” would bring condemnation from people like Southern Baptist Seminary President Albert Mohler, who claims Bell is leading people astray.

    “The last couple of weeks have been most painful in my life,” the pastor from Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Mich., told a crowd of about 1,600 at Nashville’s Belmont University on Tuesday after an audience member asked him about the criticism he has faced. “It has taken me to a place of profound brokenness.”

    But he said that with God’s help he has been able to learn and grow from the experience.

    Even before the book was published last month, religious leaders and their followers were branding it heresy, hailing it as a breakthrough or landing somewhere in the middle. Thousands have commented good and bad on Twitter, Facebook, blogs or outside their churches.

    Bell said he wrote the book because the Christian message that God is love seems to have gotten lost.

    “Is first thing that comes to mind when you hear the world Christian, is the first thing you hear, ‘Oh those are the people who never stop talking about God’s love?’ Or are we known for some other things?” he asked the crowd.

    “I kept meeting religious people who were incredibly dogmatic about heaven and hell when you die but didn’t seem to care about the fact that 800,000,000 people will go to bed hungry tonight.”

    He said that what he called “evacuation theology,“ or the idea that ”Jesus is your ticket to somewhere else,” is dangerous because it can cause people to miss Christ’s message about how to live in such harmony with God that you are creating a heaven on Earth.

    “Jesus taught his disciples to pray, not ‘God, beam me up,‘ but ’Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,’” Bell said.

    In fact, Jesus didn’t talk much about the afterlife at all, he says.

    “Jesus comes and announces the action is here and the action is now,” Bell said.

    His 10,000-member Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Mich., has grown significantly under his leadership. He has made online videos and written other books that have been popular among younger evangelicals.

    For many traditional Christians, Bell’s book sounds a lot like universalism — a heresy for many churches. It teaches that everyone, regardless of belief, will be saved by God. They argue that misleads people about the reality of the Christian faith. Bell has said he doesn’t teach universalism.

    He says hell is something freely chosen that already exists on earth.

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    interesting

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Terry...

    “I kept meeting religious people who were incredibly dogmatic about heaven and hell when you die but didn’t seem to care about the fact that 800,000,000 people will go to bed hungry tonight.”...concern and provision for your fellow man isn't universalism...it's part of christianity. maybe the pastor is hearing from the "comfortable pew"...for some it's just easier to write people off than give treasure or labor towards their salvation.

    I've always had a hard time understanding how believers would be "evacuated" while everyone else suffers. in reading the bible I get the sense from the OT in combination with revelation(plagues) that there is more evidence of the same type of action taken by God as there is in Leviticus 23:21-23. if you walk contray to God He removes His protection and allows the plague and the beast to come against you. in the OT the ones who didn't walk contrary to God weren't taken away from these things but likely were given divine protection from them.(some prophets are an example of this) according to jeremiah 25:32-38 trouble will go from nation to nation as well as amongst the "flock" and the sheperds who are contrary to God are not spared either. in revelation 7 it says that the trouble later described wont happen before His servants are sealed...(the only way sealing is described is by the Holy Spirit who also quickens believers.[divine protection] romans 8:11). the whole reason, I believe, that God told His people how/why He would take this action of removing His protection is that a) He want's people to "return/turn" to Him b) in His love for mankind He saw fit to warn us that there would be a great tribulation at the hands of those that don't return/turn to Him.

    having said that I think it's possible that even some christians under-estimate the love of God AND His ability to bring about His desire...revelation 7:9-14...these "come out of" [divine protection] the tribulation where even the saints are killed.rev 13:7

    love michelle

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Jesus' parables are grossly misunderstood by these people. He was trying to show how people create their own realities.... they are either sheep or goats. The people who fit into the sheep category are vibrating at a higher level, so they'll "ascend", which means that they will move into a better world. The selfish people, or "goats" will create their own hell. All of this can be done on the same planet. It has nothing to do with people disappearing. A more likely scenario is that their greed, selfishness, egotism, narcissism will simply kill them.

    A new consciousness can make the world over through the young people in a couple of generations.

  • DanaBug
    DanaBug

    First reaction, I want to hug Rob Bell and read his book. I have no problem with that kind of Christianity, this is what I want also: to fix things now, make heaven on earth. But then I remember, our ideas on heaven might be really different. Yeah, I'm gonna have to read that.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Anybody think a real Hell would be a pretty good idea?

    If so, why?

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I have to admit, I've been looking at some of the teachings of Christ in different ways than I use to.

    When Jesus said that those wishing to follow Him must deny himself take up his cross and follow Him, what could it mean? Could it mean that people need to learn to let go of things that they place so much value in? Jesus goes on to say that those who will try to find their lives will lose it but those who lose it for His sake will find it. Perhaps it means something similar to what master Yoda told Annakin on Star Wars 3:

    “Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is.”

    "Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side."

    "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

    Annakin, in his attempt to save Padame, went to the dark side and lost her anyway.

    Luke 9 -- 23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?
  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    A few years ago our local newspaper had an article about an Italian Catholic priest who was getting hauled over the coals for telling his congregation that the bloke they were having the funeral for should have spent less time on the turps and more time in his church and that because he was such a bad bugger he was going to hell.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Ah, Black Sheep,

    I remember when each of my grandparents on my mom's side passed away, the pastor delivering the wake sermon would say, "I do not know if this person is saved or not. I hope so, for their sake." You would think that he would've took the time to find out from someone before he got in front of the family and said something like that.

    Both times we had to tell him that they were indeed saved. Idiot, I know who NOT to have delivering the sermon at my funeral.

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    The last funeral I attended was my father's twenty years ago. He was not a Witness. The ceremony was held in a Southern Baptist church and was very dignified. My father's best friend gave the eulogy, and the service revolved around the life he had led and the people who loved him. No mention of the afterlife was made. Since he had served in the U.S. Army, we followed tradition by playing "Taps" at his graveside and then he got his 21-gun salute.

    If the purpose of a funeral is to comfort the survivors, then my father's did just that. I was a strong Witness at that time, but I remember that our family did not have a deep theological discussion, nor did we descend into arguments about what fate my father met. But this thread does remind me of a story about Mark Twain.

    Twain attended a dinner where the subject of who were in heaven and hell came up for discussion. The talk became heated as people ventured opinions on the destinations of some well-known people. All the while, as matters got hotter and hotter, Twain said nothing and let other people talk. Finally, the hostess turned to him and asked, "What do you think, Mr. Clemens? Surely you have an opinion." The response was classic. "Madam," Twain answered, "I am silent out of necessity. You see, I have friends in both places."

    Quendi

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