"origins" of teachings/holidays matter, but not to anything JW

by oompa 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • oompa
    oompa

    why is that? jw's are always saying the origins of things are pagan...referring to ALL holidays and false doctrines that all other religions are chock full of. so why does it not matter that the "modern day" orginazations origins were full of what we now know were false teachings? and they followed ONE man...russel, then rutherford for many years...which is their own unique definition of part of what a "cult" is.

    instead of placing any emphasis on how pagan or wrong the origins of early teachings of WT are...they simply say there has been new light. new light can in no way undo the facts of what the actual origins of early WT teachings/doctrines........................oompa

  • Morbidzbaby
    Morbidzbaby

    I completely agree, oompa! I've had this conversation with both of my parents a few times and they insist that "What Russell did doesn't matter". My mom went so far as to say "Well, they weren't operating under Holy Spirit and they were going against the organization!"...UM...they are the effing FOUNDERS of the "organization"!! How the F*CK can you justify it?? You can't!!! I tried explaining to her who Russell and Rutherford were (she doesn't really know much WT history at ALL) and she still didn't get what I was telling her. My dad gave the whole "They needed to be readjusted...we no longer smoke or celebrate Christmas as JW's, yet they did back then...See?? The light got brighter until they were acceptable". But WAIT A FRIGGIN MINUTE!! Weren't they ALREADY chosen as "acceptable" in 19-something-teen?? Then how the hell was it they needed to change if they were already acceptable??

    And around and around it goes. The bullshit stirs and they're so blinded by the flies that they can't see.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Good Morning Oompa!..

    The WBT$ is untouchable..

    It`s a Golden Calf meant to be Worshiped..

    No blame can ever be placed on the WBT$ for anything..

    It`s time to Get Naked and..

    Dance around the WatchTower!..

    http://www.islamfrominside.com/images/Calf.jpg

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    Its a cluster**** to be sure.

    I'm about to throw in the towel, but its gonna break up my family. I can't freaking be myself hearing some garbage about how close the big A is, or planning a 4th of July trip without my wife thinking I have some hidden agenda to celebrate the holiday.

    Its a game where they make the rules, and they can change the rules whenever the hell they want.

    You can't win with these people oompa, but Im sure you already figured that out loooooong ago...

  • VIII
    VIII

    I always send my JW mom flowers and a card for Mother's Day. She never once has refused them nor has she said "Oh, don't that's a pagan holiday". She also accepts all gifts on her birthday, Xmas and any other holiday (pagan or otherwise).

    Morals and ethics, JW style.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I've had this discussion with my wife too. It is the main reason why I decided not to follow my wife into this religion when she decided to become a witness. I'm sure they do see the double standard but have somehow reasoned their way out of it in their own minds (new light). When people like us point out the flaws of that reasoning it forces them to look at their beliefs in a way they do not wish to look at them. To quiet the dissonance in their minds, they just take the attitude that something is wrong with you, therefore they do not need to think about what you are saying.

    Mind OFF...

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    I never thought of that point before oompa. Great thread!

  • Quirky1
    Quirky1

    Hello Oompa....It's been awhile..

  • Terry
    Terry

    Bible principle: a little leaven ferments THE WHOLE LUMP.

    Pagan origins are to be expunged.

    How about being consistant?

    The Days of the Weeks and Months of the year are of pagan origin!

    The Seven Day Week
    The Naming of the Days
    Sunday -- Sun's day
    Monday -- Moon's day
    Tuesday -- Tiu's day
    Wednesday -- Woden's day
    Thursday -- Thor's day
    Friday -- Freya's day
    Saturday -- Saturn's day

    The Naming of the Days

    The Greeks named the days week after the sun, the moon and the five known planets, which were in turn named after the gods Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Cronus. The Greeks called the days of the week the Theon hemerai "days of the Gods". The Romans substituted their equivalent gods for the Greek gods, Mars, Mercury, Jove (Jupiter), Venus, and Saturn. (The two pantheons are very similar.) The Germanic peoples generally substituted roughly similar gods for the Roman gods, Tiu (Twia), Woden, Thor, Freya (Fria), but did not substitute Saturn.

    Sunday -- Sun's day

    Middle English sone(n)day or sun(nen)day
    Old English sunnandæg "day of the sun"
    Germanic sunnon-dagaz "day of the sun"
    Latin dies solis "day of the sun"
    Ancient Greek hemera heli(o)u, "day of the sun"

    Monday -- Moon's day

    Middle English monday or mone(n)day
    Old English mon(an)dæg "day of the moon"
    Latin dies lunae "day of the moon"
    Ancient Greek hemera selenes "day of the moon"

    Tuesday -- Tiu's day

    Middle English tiwesday or tewesday
    Old English tiwesdæg "Tiw's (Tiu's) day"
    Latin dies Martis "day of Mars"
    Ancient Greek hemera Areos "day of Ares"

    Tiu (Twia) is the English/Germanic god of war and the sky. He is identified with the Norse god Tyr.

    Mars is the Roman god of war.

    Ares is the Greek god of war.

    Wednesday -- Woden's day

    Middle English wodnesday, wednesday, or wednesdai
    Old English wodnesdæg "Woden's day"
    Latin dies Mercurii "day of Mercury"
    Ancient Greek hemera Hermu "day of Hermes"

    Woden is the chief Anglo-Saxon/Teutonic god. Woden is the leader of the Wild Hunt. Woden is from wod "violently insane" + -en "headship". He is identified with the Norse Odin.

    Mercury is the Roman god of commerce, travel, theivery, eloquence and science. He is the messenger of the other gods.

    Hermes is the Greek god of commerce, invention, cunning, and theft. He is the messenger and herald of the other gods. He serves as patron of travelers and rogues, and as the conductor of the dead to Hades.

    Thursday -- Thor's day

    Middle English thur(e)sday
    Old English thursdæg
    Old Norse thorsdagr "Thor's day"
    Old English thunresdæg "thunder's day"
    Latin dies Jovis "day of Jupiter"
    Ancient Greek hemera Dios "day of Zeus".

    Thor is the Norse god of thunder. He is represented as riding a chariot drawn by goats and wielding the hammer Miölnir. He is the defender of the Aesir, destined to kill and be killed by the Midgard Serpent.

    Jupiter (Jove) is the supreme Roman god and patron of the Roman state. He is noted for creating thunder and lightning.

    Zeus is Greek god of the heavens and the supreme Greek god.

    Friday -- Freya's day

    Middle English fridai
    Old English frigedæg "Freya's day"
    composed of Frige (genetive singular of Freo) + dæg "day" (most likely)
    or composed of Frig "Frigg" + dæg "day" (least likely)
    Germanic frije-dagaz "Freya's (or Frigg's) day"
    Latin dies Veneris "Venus's day"
    Ancient Greek hemera Aphrodites "day of Aphrodite"

    Freo is identical with freo, meaning free. It is from the Germanic frijaz meaning "beloved, belonging to the loved ones, not in bondage, free".

    Freya (Fria) is the Teutonic goddess of love, beauty, and fecundity (prolific procreation). She is identified with the Norse god Freya. She is leader of the Valkyries and one of the Vanir. She is confused in Germany with Frigg.

    Frigg (Frigga) is the Teutonic goddess of clouds, the sky, and conjugal (married) love. She is identified with Frigg, the Norse goddess of love and the heavens and the wife of Odin. She is one of the Aesir. She is confused in Germany with Freya.

    Venus is the Roman goddess of love and beauty.

    Aphrodite (Cytherea) is the Greek goddess of love and beauty.

    Saturday -- Saturn's day

    Middle English saterday
    Old English sæter(nes)dæg "Saturn's day"
    Latin dies Saturni "day of Saturn"
    Ancient Greek hemera Khronu "day of Cronus"

    Saturn is the Roman and Italic god of agriculture and the consort of Ops. He is believed to have ruled the earth during an age of happiness and virtue.

    Cronus (Kronos, Cronos) is the Greek god (Titan) who ruled the universe until dethroned by his son Zeus.

    Sources

    These sources are somewhat inconsistent. I have chosen interpretations that are predominate among sources or that seem most reasonable.

    William Morris, editor, The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language , New College Edition, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 1976

    Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language , Portland House, New York, 1989

    William Matthew O'Neil, Time and the Calendars , Sydney University Press, 1975

    A History of the Months

    The original Roman year had 10 named months Martius "March", Aprilis "April", Maius "May", Junius "June", Quintilis "July", Sextilis "August", September "September", October "October", November "November", December "December", and probably two unnamed months in the dead of winter when not much happened in agriculture. The year began with Martius "March". Numa Pompilius, the second king of Rome circa 700 BC, added the two months Januarius "January" and Februarius "February". He also moved the beginning of the year from Marius to Januarius and changed the number of days in several months to be odd, a lucky number. After Februarius there was occasionally an additional month of Intercalaris "intercalendar". This is the origin of the leap-year day being in February. In 46 BC, Julius Caesar reformed the Roman calendar (hence the Julian calendar) changing the number of days in many months and removing Intercalaris.

    January -- Janus's month

    Middle English Januarie
    Latin Januarius "of Janus"
    Latin Janu(s) "Janus" + -arius "ary (pertaining to)"
    Latin Januarius mensis "month of Janus"

    Janus is the Roman god of gates and doorways, depicted with two faces looking in opposite directions. His festival month is January.

    Januarius had 29 days, until Julius when it became 31 days long.

    February -- month of Februa

    Middle English Februarius
    Latin Februarius "of Februa"
    Latin Februa(s) "Februa" + -arius "ary (pertaining to)"
    Latin Februarius mensis "month of Februa"
    Latin dies februatus "day of purification"

    Februarius had 28 days, until circa 450 BC when it had 23 or 24 days on some of every second year, until Julius when it had 29 days on every fourth year and 28 days otherwise.

    Februa is the Roman festival of purification, held on February fifteenth. It is possibly of Sabine origin.

    Intercalaris -- inter-calendar month

    Latin Intercalaris "inter-calendar"
    Latin Mercedonius (popular name) "?"

    Intercalaris had 27 days until the month was abolished by Julius.

    March -- Mars' month

    Middle English March(e)
    Anglo-French March(e)
    Old English Martius
    Latin Martius "of Mars"
    Latin Marti(s) "Mars" + -us (adj. suffix)
    Latin Martius mensis "month of Mars"

    Martius has always had 31 days.

    March was the original beginning of the year, and the time for the resumption of war.

    Mars is the Roman god of war. He is identified with the Greek god Ares.

    April -- Aphrodite's month

    Old English April(is)
    Latin Aprilis
    Etruscan Apru
    Greek Aphro, short for Aphrodite.

    Aprilis had 30 days, until Numa when it had 29 days, until Julius when it became 30 days long.

    Aphrodite is the Greek goddess of love and beauty. She is identified with the Roman goddess Venus.

    May -- Maia's month

    Old French Mai
    Old English Maius
    Latin Maius "of Maia"
    Latin Maius mensis "month of Maia"

    Maius has always had 31 days.

    Maia (meaning "the great one") is the Italic goddess of spring, the daughter of Faunus, and wife of Vulcan.

    June -- Juno's month

    Middle English jun(e)
    Old French juin
    Old English junius
    Latin Junius "of Juno"
    Latin Junius mensis "month of Juno"

    Junius had 30 days, until Numa when it had 29 days, until Julius when it became 30 days long.

    Juno is the principle goddess of the Roman Pantheon. She is the goddess of marriage and the well-being of women. She is the wife and sister of Jupiter. She is identified with the Greek goddess Hera.

    July -- Julius Caesar's month

    Middle English Julie
    Latin Julius "Julius"
    Latin Julius mensis "month of Julius"
    Latin quintilis mensis "fifth month"

    Quintilis (and later Julius) has always had 31 days.

    Julius Caesar reformed the Roman calendar (hence the Julian calendar) in 46 BC. In the process, he renamed this month after himself.

    August -- Augustus Caesar's month

    Latin Augustus "Augustus"
    Latin Augustus mensis "month of Augustus"
    Latin sextilis mensis "sixth month"

    Sextilis had 30 days, until Numa when it had 29 days, until Julius when it became 31 days long.

    Augustus Caesar clarified and completed the calendar reform of Julius Caesar. In the process, he also renamed this month after himself.

    September -- the seventh month

    Middle English septembre
    Latin September
    Latin septem "seven" + -ber (adj. suffix)
    Latin september mensis "seventh month"

    September had 30 days, until Numa when it had 29 days, until Julius when it became 30 days long.

    October -- the eighth month

    Middle English octobre
    Latin October
    Latin octo "eight" + -ber (adj. suffix)
    Latin october mensis "eighth month"

    October has always had 31 days.

    November -- the nineth month

    Middle English Novembre
    Latin November
    Latin Novembris mensis "nineth month"

    Novembris had 30 days, until Numa when it had 29 days, until Julius when it became 30 days long.

    December -- the tenth month

    Middle English decembre
    Old French decembre
    Latin december "tenth month"
    Latin decem "ten" + -ber (adj. suffix)

    December had 30 days, until Numa when it had 29 days, until Julius when it became 31 days long.

    Sources

    These sources are somewhat inconsistent. I have chosen interpretations that are predominate among sources or that seem most reasonable.

    William Morris, editor, The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language , New College Edition, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 1976

    Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language , Portland House, New York, 1989

    William Matthew O'Neil, Time and the Calendars , Sydney University Press, 1975

  • Morbidzbaby
    Morbidzbaby

    @ Terry, the JW's already have their own calendar and are quirky enough as it is...lol they don't need any more encouragement!!

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