Is it "volunteering" or is it "slavery" or something else?

by Scully 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Scully

  The WTS depends almost exclusively on a volunteer labor force. Its members volunteer their time, goods and services for the benefit and financial gain of the WTS. The "carrot" that drives this volunteerism is god's favour, and ostensibly the further recruitment of new volunteers who will also use their time, goods and services for the benefit and financial gain of the WTS.

  However, when the "carrot" turns out to be part of a con, and turns out to be completely false (as it often does in areas where human traffickers use the promise of "a better life" or "a better future" to recruit people) it is referred to as slavery.

  People willingly sign up for what turns out to be slave labour, and often sign their children up for what turns out to be slave labour, on the false promise of bettering themselves.

  Now I know that Bethelites™, Missionaries™ and Special Pioneers™ receive a very modest monthly stipend that doesn't even cover personal care supplies, much less provide for clothing, transportation, etc., and that these folks rely heavily on the generosity of Brothers™ and Sisters™. But does it ever occur to anyone that their volunteerism is, in fact, slave labour? I don't include Circuit Overseers™ or District Overseers™ because individual Congregations™ generally put forth a motion at the end of a visit to cover the CO's/DO's expenses. I know that Bethelites™ in Canada, at least, have to make an official declaration for income tax purposes - a Vow of Poverty - when they enter Bethel service.

  The other thing that bothers me about this is the number of born-in children of JWs who participate (sometimes willingly, sometime not) in the Door-to-Door Ministry™ with their parents, even though they are not old enough to have a job. Really, does doing this kind of volunteer work for a religious group, based on the false promise of "God's approval", make this form of child labour and child slavery okay?? Putting a religious banner on what essentially amounts to slave labour seems like the epitome of repugnance to me. As evidence from third world countries shows, signing up for slavery based on a false promise of a better life or better future is still the disgusting practice of slavery.

  Any thoughts??
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  WTWizard

  The promise of everlasting life itself is a hoax. And even if not, why would you need to do all that extra work?

  Suppose you have two people in the religion. One does barely enough to get by--one hour of field circus per month, attending a few boasting sessions, and always takes the most liberal interpretation of everything. The other is very strict--a pio-sneer, always getting 200 hours a month (and never any fake hours or padded hours) of field circus, and takes the strictest interpretation on everything. If both get into salvation, does this mean the person that did everything the strict way wasted all that effort? Being super strict is not going to get you extra perfection or extra life--when you add to infinity, you still have infinity. Hence, the law of diminishing returns kicks in immediately as soon as the threshold of "salvation" is crossed. Anything more than that is a waste.
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  hoser

  I know that individual members of Hutterite colonies who have left the colony/religion have successfully sued the colony for minimum wages for the time that they worked for free for the religious order.
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  blondie

  D2D for children--child labor?--was tried in the US Supreme Court already.

  U.S. Supreme Court

  PRINCE v. COM. OF MASS., 321 U.S. 158 (1944)

  321 U.S. 158

  PRINCE
  v.
  COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS.
  No. 98.
  
  Argued Dec. 14, 1943.
  Decided Jan. 31, 1944.

  http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0321_0158_ZO.html

  http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=321&invol=158

  This attempt by the state of Massachusetts to prohibit a child from exercising her constitutional right to practice her religion on the public streets cannot, in my opinion, be sustained.

  The record makes clear the basic fact that Betty Simmons, the nine- year old child in question, was engaged in a genuine religious, rather than commercial, activity.....
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  godrulz

  WTwizard: The reality is that everyone lives forever. There is also a promise for eternal life to those who believe, but everlasting punishment to those who don't (I Jn. 5:11-13; Jn. 3:16 vs Jn. 3:36). Salvation is based on grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5). Faith vs unbelief determines destiny. The WT is classic cult in its works-based religion (carrot/donkey). All the works in the world will not get one closer to eternal life. The finished work of Christ and receiving vs rejecting it is the basis.

  Works fit in with degree of reward (just as nature and quantity of sin affects degrees of punishment). Works are the fruit of faith and will be rewarded. Faith is the root of salvation. WT works are a waste of time and life since it is not service to God, but to a cruel organization of fallible men. Being a JW or ex-JW is a terrible thing. This is what motivates me in love to proclaim the risen Christ, the one who alone gives abundant and eternal life and is able to restore the years that the locusts ate. God loves you and wants the best for you, but we must come on His terms and recognize His rightful rulership over our lives (which is not mediated by Vatican nor Brooklyn).

  Slave of WT/Satan (taskmasters) or love slave of Jesus or godplayer in kingdom of Self? There is only one sane option.
• 

  Scully

  Hi blondie

  This attempt by the state of Massachusetts to prohibit a child from exercising her constitutional right to practice her religion on the public streets cannot, in my opinion, be sustained.

  The record makes clear the basic fact that Betty Simmons, the nine- year old child in question, was engaged in a genuine religious, rather than commercial, activity.....

  The issue I have with this ruling is that under any other banner than religion, a minor child does not have such rights. A child cannot enter into a contract, a child cannot obtain a driver's licence, purchase alcohol or tobacco or firearms, write a check, get married, join the army, open a bank account, get a credit card , take out a loan, and so on, as they are not deemed, in any legal sense, to be qualified to or able to understand the legal responsibilities and implications of doing so.

  Why does religion - and only religion - have the over-arching blessing of government to do with children as it wishes, or, rather, entice children [by way of their parents' indoctrination and example] with fraudulent promises into acting in the religion's be$t intere$t$ and subverting what is in the child's best interests?
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  talesin

  I couldn't agree with you more, scully.

  If we look at the laws of our culture, a lot of them are based on religion. For example, besides charities, who else gets a free pass on taxes? I also think of the US money, which says "In God We Trust". It's a touchy issue, religious freedom. There have been people who sued the WTBTS because of being baptized too young, and then punished for the rest of their life for leaving the Truth TM -- but the courts are very careful to adopt a 'hands-off' policy when it comes to 'RELIGION'.

  Another point that speaks to this issue is the 'ownership' of children. Instead of being the guardians of these precious tiny people, parents often feel more of a sense of ownership -- MY son/daughter,,, will follow in MY footsteps. It's not just JWS who feel this way -- many people would defend the JWS right to raise their children in THEIR religion.

  To be honest, I've had conversations with people who said how amazing it is to see these little children who are soooo smart, and preaching door-to-door. You know, it's cute. My response has been -- oh really? It felt like being paraded out as an exhibit --- look at MY child,, see how smart MY child is? see how (s)he can read/write/preach at SO YOUNG an age? Not only that, they use the children to get past objections - who is gonna be mean to this cute little 5YO or 7YO? When described this way, folks start to see a different viewpoint - mine, that is true, but the real one.

  We see a lot of images on TV about child slavery - it's the same as poverty - we are encouraged to look only at so-called *third world* countries and ignore the slavery and poverty HERE. Oh, yes, we are lucky in the West -- but, still WE need to be the gatekeepers of our freedom, and not leave it to the politicians who only kow-tow to big business and big religion. Taking on the JWS re child slavery? What person in power, whether it be the courts or lawmakers, is gonna tangle with their legal eagles? Even Oprah never did a story on JW -- think about it... how many people from here wrote her? Legally, it's a quagmire.

  Thanks for bringing up this subject. It's a very real, valid point, and you've given us a different perspective.

  t
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  Brokeback Watchtower

  BTTT
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  mynameislame

  Regarding children, I don't know how they get away with having children dedicate themselves to the organization. A simple baptism might be OK but there is no way a young person understands what is involved in the JW version of Baptism. They are probably getting away with it because most people (even JWs) don't understand how much more there is to a JW baptism.