Cyrus the Great was the Jewish Messiah?

by sabastious 14 years ago 8 Replies latest 14 years ago watchtower bible

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  sabastious 14 years ago

  from:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

  The biblical history

  The Hebrew Bible contains "myths, legends and folktales, sagas, heroic epics, oral traditions, annals, biographies, narrative histories, novellae, belles lettres, proverbs and wisdom-sayings, poetry (including erotic poems ...), prophecy, apocalyptic, and much more ... the whole finally woven into a composite, highly complex literary fabric sometime in the Hellenistic era." [ 2 ] Although tradition ascribes them to times and authors contemporaneous with events, they were in fact written in many cases considerably after the times they describe and by authors with a clear religious and nationalist agenda, and it is therefore critical to treat them with circumspection. [ 3 ]

  The bible's history begins with the Creation , but God, seeing how the world is corrupted with violence, destroys it with a Deluge and starts again with Noah. Noah has three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, but Ham offends him and decrees that Canaan, Ham's son, will become a slave to the sons of Shem and Japheth. Somewhat later God scatters the peoples of the world across the Earth, allocating each a land. God calls Abraham, the descendant of Shem, to take possession of the land of Canaan. After a period of enslavement in Egypt the descendants of Abraham's grandson Jacob/Israel enter Canaan under their leader Joshua and take it from the Canaanites.

  At first the Israelites live as separate tribes, are repeatedly unfaithful to their God, and in consequence are oppressed by foreign peoples, and at their request God gives them a king. The first king, Saul, proves unworthy, and God replaces him with David. David, the ideal king, puts his faith in God and unites all Israel under his rule, and his son Solomon builds the Temple where God will dwell among his people. But Solomon proves unfaithful to God, permitting the worship of gods other than Yahweh (the name of Israel's god), and so God punishes him by dividing the kingdom, the kingdom of Israel in the north and Judah in the south. The kings of Israel are consistently unfaithful, worshiping gods other than Yahweh, and God brings the Assyrians to destroy them. In the south things are somewhat better, but king Mannasseh allows religious tolerance to flourish, and so, despite the goodness Mannasseh's grandson Josiah who removes all trace of incorrect worship, God also destroys Judah.

  The third phase of the biblical history is the history of the exile of Judah in Babylon, which is God's punishment on Israel for having worshiped other gods. After 70 years of exile Yahweh relents and brings a messiah to set Israel free. This is Cyrus the Great of Persia, who conquers Babylon and sends the Jews back to Jerusalem to build a new Temple where God can be worshiped in the midst of a purified and holy people, separated from the impure peoples around them.

  Could anyone please elaborate on what the article is refering to here?

  -Sab

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  dgp 14 years ago

  It is very obvious this is not what Jews themselves thought at the time Christianity began. Or today, for that matter. They are still waiting for their Messiah.

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  Rocky_Girl 14 years ago

  The idea of messiah is different to the Jewish people than it is to Christians. The Hebrew word for messiah actually means "anointed one" and does not imply any ransom sacrifice, perfection, or divine nature.

  You have to look at it from the point of view of the author to get what he means. Namely: Cyrus the Great was used by God to do 'such and such.'

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  Leolaia 14 years ago

  Yahweh calls Cyrus "my anointed" in Deutero-Isaiah.

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  Piercingtheveil81 14 years ago

  This is interesting because there are quite a few ocassions when the word messiah or "mashiach" in Hebrew are used of individuals like king David, king Saul, and Cyrus.

  Christian translators of the bible, however, will render the word as "anointed" when referring to such ones but when spoken of Jesus will leave as "Messiah" as if to give it some special meaning and glamour.

  PVT81

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  Larsinger58 14 years ago

  There are a few symbolic substitute "anointed ones" or "servants" that Yahweh uses to fulfill his purposes. For instance, even Nebuchadnezzar is called "my servant" by Yahweh in Jeremiah:

  25: 9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite."

  So "my servant" as well is a term used for symbolic messiah's or anointed ones. Moses, for instance is called the "servant" of Jehovah as well, clearly a messianic figure.

  For WTS lore, this is a technical reference which allows for substituting Nebuchadnezzr for the "messiah" in the "7 times prophecy." As most JWs will recall, the "7 times" prophesy is applied to the absence on the throne of an earthly representative of God's kingdom, interrupted from the time of Zedekiah, the last king, until the messiah arrives 2520 years later. The prophecy, though, also involves Nebuchadnezzar being off his throne for "7 times" in the "minor fulfillment" which amounts to a literal period of 7 years. So Nebuchadnezzar is exchanged, symbolically with the/a messiah.

  But Rocky_Girl brings up another critical issue in regards to the Jews and who they are expecting as the messiah: She said:

  " Post 237 of 238
  Since 8/31/2007

  The idea of messiah is different to the Jewish people than it is to Christians. The Hebrew word for messiah actually means "anointed one" and does not imply any ransom sacrifice, perfection, or divine nature.

  You have to look at it from the point of view of the author to get what he means. Namely: Cyrus the Great was used by God to do 'such and such.'"

  The Jews recognize, for one thing, that there are TWO MESSIAHS that were to arrive. One through the line of Judah, who was Jesus, whom they try to deny, the other through the tribe of Joseph. Christians totally ignore this second messiah through the line of Joseph, though in reality, there is no problem when you accept the Biblical truth that the messiah must appear in the flesh as "the son of man" that is, a descendant of Adam. The first time he comes as a sacrifice, which is through the tribe of Judah. We all know that. But the second coming is through the tribe of Joseph, through his son Ephraim, who was half Egyptian, thus fulfilling a second time: "Out of Egypt, I called my son."

  At any rate, you can easily find more information on this by simply searching: "messiah ben Joseph" which will bring up the Jewish recognition that there are two messiahs. Of course, Jewish understanding is not accurate regarding understanding just exactly how the two messiahs are connected, but still, to their credit, they recognize two messiahs, unlike the WTS or any major Christian religion I know of. Here's a wikipedia article on "messiah ben Joseph" as an example of what else Jews believe regarding their messiah that has no Christian doctrinal parallel.

  Wikipedia here, but check out other comments as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_ben_Joseph

  Also, Jews are very keen on applying themselves as a nation as fulfilling the messianic prophecies, or some aspect of it, and they are absolutely correct. There are three messiahs easily (well, not easily, otherwise I wouldn't have to explain this...) identified.

  1) One is Jesus Christ, the messiah ben Judah/David, who arrived in the 1st Century in 29 CE.

  2) One is messiah ben Joseph, who is the second-coming messiah.

  3) And one messiah is the entire nation of Isreal, who act as the savior of the world, as the Bible says, "salvation originates with the Jews." (John 4:22)

  So there are many messiahs and "servants" used by Jehovah fulfilled in different ways in the Bible.

  Of course, people don't really want to deal with anything unpleasant. For instance, "Gog of Magog" though itself evil, was used by Jehovah to desolate the Jews in modern times. The desolator of the Jews, which was during the HOLOCAUST, was the Nazis. Thus "Gog of Magog" represents Nazis or Nazism, a cult linked with "The Mysteries" and occult Satanism. But it could be said, at one point, that even Hitler was being used by God to administer that final blow to the Jews for leaving his covenant, as prophesied. Zech 13:8 notes that the punishment during the great tribulation would be that two-thirds of the nation would go through the fire, but one third would survive and be restored to their homeland. The two-thirds was fulfilled by the extermination of 6 million Jews out of 9 million who died during the Holocaust. So when you think that it was God who brought Gog of Magog against his own people, that translates at one level that even Hitler was being used by Jehovah as "his servant" at one point. But the average person can't handle that concept since it would require them to don their rose-colored glasses and deal with some deeper spiritual things, when all they really want is the "milk" from the Bible and to remain spiritual babies.

  Whatever.

  It's all moot, anyway.

  Armageddon is coming which will clear up a lot of things regarding God and the Bible.

  LS

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  Bobbydee 14 years ago

  larsinger

  Yes there are two messiahs. And One is of Satan. He is satan's messiah. He will rule the world for 3 1/2 years from the throne of "god" in Jerusalem. And all shall worship him, who are not written in the lambs book of life.

  You have Satan as the messiah. You have the Jews as God's chosen ones in Israel, committing genocide by the way, and it is all coming together quite nicely huh?

  Satan, you will have your day and you will falllllllllll........................................................................

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  Bobbydee 14 years ago

  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

  And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

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  Bobbydee 14 years ago

  Oh yes and by the way. I was sure happy when 1992 came. That is when the messiah came. Can we all rmember what a great day that was??? Before that things were really bad. Now it is great isnt it. Thanks Messiah

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