Judge Rules Ex-Firefighter Cannot Sue Over Mosque.
Bangalore
Judge Rules Ex-Firefighter Cannot Sue Over Mosque
by Bangalore 3 Replies latest social current
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Band on the Run
If a lawyer filed this, rather than a firefighter pro se, he/she should receive sanctions governing frivolous law suits.
This was a judicial waste of time and financial resources. It is hard to explain why b/c it has to do with an actual case or controversy const'l requirement and some concept called standing. Courts won't allow just anyone with a grievance to suit. You have to suffer a direct harm. There are tons of rules and fine gradations. I am working on this now with the Establishment Clause. There are tremendous substantive hurdles erected by the Catholic majority to bringing challenges against government entanglement in religion. Recently, though, they ramped up the standing requirements. Taxpayers have no standing as taxpayers to challenge programs. There was a narrow exception for separation of church and state but the Court practically obliterated it.
This is a matter for the politcal process. As a NYer, I feel just as entitled as a fireman to say what happens. The mosque makes sense to me. It wipes Muslim radicalism and violence face into how this country is different. We have enduring values. The families are split. Because NYC is not under Sharia law, the First Amendment lives.
Of course, I fully understand those who feel threatened by it.
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pedal power
Hi Band on the run, allowing the Mosque, so close to the 911 site will not result in a lowering of moslem radicalism and violence as you suggest, quite the reverse. It will reinforce the argument perpetrated by Islamic fundementalists, that attacking USA, gets results, ie we bomb NY, they are so scared of us now, they let us build a mosque, where we bombed them, what your country is doing is lunacy, appeasement NEVER works. Even your on military in Iraq and Afghanistan, have demonstrated, that if you want a peacefull settlement, politically, you SURGE, squeeze thier balls, then you can do business with them. Rolling over to them in NY, is a retrograde step IMO. not only that, moderate Americans are margenalised, and are now prone to be more receptive to right wing ideoligies, which only compounds the problem.
Kennedy faced up to USSR and did not allow Cuba to be used as a missile delivery base.
Reagon, unlike his predessesor ,the spineless and weak Jimmy Carter, Squeezed the balls of the USSR, and they collapsed.
You may be a lawer, but IMO you lack political nous.
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Band on the Run
I disagree with all my soul and as some who personally worked, dated, shopped, bought wine, and other things at the WTC every day. Weekends included. We are different from Arabic countries. The US is a constitutional democracy with an enforced Bill of Rights against the government. Among the many so brutally murdered were many Moslems minding their own business. They were every bit as Moslem as the sociopaths who murdered them. Perhaps more so since the Korea does not teach what Al-Qaeda teaches.
A mosque would be a clear, shining symbol that we don't discriminate against Moslems. Rather, we enforce laws of basic human decency upheld throughout the globe - and beyond in Star Trek. Our quarrel is not with Islam, but with a very small, aberrant form of Islam. The Wesport Baptisit is no more representative of Christian belief than Al-Qaeda is of Islam. It enables moderate Moslems to stand forcefully against terrorism, next to their Jewish and Christian friends and neighbors.
The Arab street perspective is that we are racist and arrogant. There are elements of truth in that assessment. No one believes that the U.S. would ever tolerate the dictators in the Arab peninsula in Europe. We have different standards for white-skinned and colored people. They see a cartoon of the United States. Only by understanding their view can we change it. These countries offer no roads up through the system. Castes exist. Tribalism is active.
There could be nothing more Christian than allowing a moderate mosque at the site. Besides, it is not a nice area. There are porn shops and other formerly 42nd St. attractions down there. The particular area is not the financial district at its best. A lot of people in NYC put up banners that were done in red, white, and blue and said "These colors do not run." If we retreat from what makes us American, they win. Not allowing them is to restrict their First Amendment rights. The terrorists can never achieve a military victory over the US. Terrorists know they can not win. They win by people over reacting to them.
When I awoke to primary day on September 11th, I was an American with my full rights. I refuse to let all those people and my own traumas be for nothing. No matter what they do to me, I will set one foot in front of another and be a true American, passionate about my civil rights and civil liberties. Fight them the smart way. Defeat them the smart way.
This also can not be discussed in the absence of US support for Israel. The last time I looked, Israel was not of the fifty states in this union. Israel is our ally but to have only a single ally in the region is crazy. Living in NY, I know many, many Jewish friends. Sorry, I favor Vermont or South Dakota over Israel. We can be a good ally without being a Zionist. Employed young men with an avenue up the economic ladder will not so threatend by the US. They can never win a military victory but neither can we in the long run. We need Cold War analogies. It seems to have turned out well for the US.