Sheep and goats...

by Aussie Oz 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    We all know the old sheep = followers and Goats = the independant thing. Sometimes i wonder if the bible got it all wrong, but i think the writers may have got it spot on!

    Having spent a couple of years working with sheep, over all, they are stupid, followers, will only eat what they are provided, scared and unfriendly. And thats why i think they got chosen to represent the so called good people, the 'sheeplike ones'. Christian religions in general needs people who dont think for themselves, are willing to be led, will only digest so called spiritual food, are easy to intimidate and are anti social.

    In research over buying goats i have found goats are very smart, independant, curious, will eat anything and friendly, much like people who remain outside organized religion... free thinkers, secure in their direction, willing to investigate new things, consider alternate ideas and are much more social.

    And this, i think is why the early church painted the unbelievers as goats... the needed to scare the soft touches of society to surrender themselves to its leadership.

    oz

    ps...I know some of this may be sweeping generalization. Sure, some sheep are tame and some goats will butt you to death, Some christians are more like goats and some mainstream people are very sheepy. But over all...

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Are you comparing sheep to jw's in terms of intelligience? If so, that is insulting.. to sheep. ;) ''So we can probably classify sheep as being a bit like a slow monkey in terms of intelligence." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8335465/Sheep-are-far-smarter-than-previously-thought.html

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    goats are very smart, ... free thinkers, secure in their direction, willing to investigate new things, consider alternate ideas and are much more social.

    I'm a goat . . . and proud to be one.

  • aristeas
    aristeas

    AussieOz:

    Spot on! While I was in, I remember talking with a rancher who compared how stupid sheep are with how intelligent cattle are (sorry, no goats here). Some highlights I remember: All one has to do is show a steer how to get back to the pen once and it will do it on its own afterward, whereas the sheep has to be personally escorted back every time and never learns on its own how to do it. When attacked, a steer will run or fight back. A domesticated sheep will just stay there bleating and dying. At best it will take cover among the other sheep who will not fight back either.

    At the time I was struggling with how nearly all Witnesses I knew had to be told anything from established authority. If I (or someone else) shared something true either from the scriptures or about life in general, I'd ususally get a puzzling look or at best, a 'That's interesting.' Then if a WTS publication later came out with the same thing, it was 'Oh, isn't that fascinating!' At first I was shocked, but then, like you, I thought of the scriptural concept of sheep knowing the voice of the shepherd and not that of the hired man, etc. As you have pointed out, it certainly fits overall. Your words about being anti-social are esp. good. With whom do literal sheep only associate? Other sheep and their beloved shepherds. Sound like anyone you know?

    According to the psychologist Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs (see http://www.businessballs.com/maslow.htm -or- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs for good charts of this) at the bottom rungs are things like safety, security, law, limits, order, food, while higher needs such as achievement, responsibility, respect for and by others, and personal growth are at the top. It's pretty clear where traditional religious people fit in, why members who belong to this forum left the borg, and why they generally cannot 'reach' those still in.

    I think of the spiritual perfection envisioned by most Witnesses in their new order as a place of massive ignorance in the sense of the emprical truth so valued by the intelligensia of today. Rather it would be a place full of very simple people who nevertheless love their God Jehovah and where their very basic needs of security mentioned above are constantly met without worry. They simply do not have other needs such as curiosity or fulfillment (at least not in any sophisticated sense) higher up on Maslow's chart. Thus there would be no need for meeting them in the new order.

    The Hebrew concept of Adam and Eve's sin being to partake of the tree of knowledge is pertinent here. Sheep have a very limited desire for, even tolerance of, knowledge.

    I appreciate your taking the time to initiate this thought-provoking thread! It will be interesting to see how others respond...

    Cheers.

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    I wonder, is it fair to say goats are anti-Semitic?

    http://thebibleismybestfriend.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-to-listen.html

  • tec
    tec

    ps...I know some of this may be sweeping generalization. Sure, some sheep are tame and some goats will butt you to death, Some christians are more like goats and some mainstream people are very sheepy. But over all...

    LOL.

    Um... a sweeping generalization IS over all. Isn't it?

    I think the meaning is that sheep listen to their master's voice, and run from a stranger. That is the illustration/analogy that Christ used. Him being the Shepherd, and his flock being the sheep. I don't think there is more to it than that.

    I don't know anything about goats... perhaps they don't listen to their master, or do listen to strangers? I don't know. But didn't the Israelites used to send a goat off into the desert with all the people's 'sins' on it? Perhaps that is why there is a connection with them in the analogy - they were already associated with 'sin'.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    In reality sheep are very emotionally intelligent according to some studies and so are we. Leaders prefer to work with intellignet peeps.

    wasn't there an aussie study that showed that JW children were on average more creative than non jws?

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi Aussie Oz, I believe that the Biblical writers were referring to sheep as being teachable (not gulible) and that goats were less teachable. The NT also warned believers of not blindly following religious leaders. I believe that was one of the main reasons that Jesus Christ came to teach mankind about following his teachings. Maybe the biblical writers should have also wrote about lemmings to demonstrate the extremes that some people will blindly follow religious leaders, but lemmings did/do not exist in the Middle East.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    ABibleStudent

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