Answer to DTRT
Part 1
Some words of explanation and a warning: This is the first of four parts answering DTRT’s questions that were attaching to the bottom of “Satan’s Achilles’ Heel” aka “The little piss-ant panty-waist ‘god’ “ (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/216795/1/Satan-The-little-piss-ant-panty-waist-god ). If you haven’t read that first part, you may need to go back and review it in order to have some continuity.
As to the warning: As mentioned before, some people find this subject disturbing, because we are tromping all over forbidden territory.
Hi, DTRT!
You said “You are most likely sittin' there with yer eyes crossed, question marks leak-
in' from yer ears an' uh thinkin' I'm a NUT! Please bare with me and I
will attempt to weave this into a complete concept.”
LOL! Far from it! You’re merely asking the types of questions that need to be asked! They are deeply appreciated!
Please keep in mind that none of this is written as a dissertation that others are expected to accept as gospel. Rather, it is meant more as a brain-storming session where anything goes, and the farther out we get the better. If we are dealing with entities that are far more intelligent than we are, any “stretching of our intellect” is entirely proper and a step in the right direction.
Being a “Bible Scholar” isn’t necessary either. If we are to hear such things “out of the mouth of babes” as Psalms 8:2 says we will, we don’t need to be experts, but merely people who have the courage to think and reason for ourselves. “Experts” tend to miss the forest because there are too many trees in the road anyway.
One more thing to keep in mind: We are not implying this is, or even that we are trying to find “THE” answer. There aren’t enough facts and figures for that. All we are trying to do is find “an” answer, i.e., a path through this maze that retains three things: a. Continuity; b. Logic, and; c. Hope.
Now let’s try to provide some tentative “answers” to your observations. They cover such a wide range of things though, that it may be necessary to use the shotgun approach on some of them. Also, let’s divvy it up into chunks in order to limit its length.
Please allow me to pose a question as to the nature of "Demon Food".
As to the nature of “demon food” itself, there is almost no evidence at all of what that could be. The proposal that they assimilate it by osmosis was meant as more of a joke than anything else, because there is no evidence one way or the other.
However, the hypothesis that they use it directly, like a light bulb uses electricity, was more of an “on the other hand” type of second thought. Nothing prevents us from borrowing the reasoning process that gives us knowledge about things we can’t see, like cosmic rays or radioactivity. We learn about them by the effects they have on us and/or other things.
The part that piques interest in this regard are the passages in the Bible about the “spirits in prison” to which Peter said Jesus preached (1 Peter 3:19), of how they are to be cast into “Tartarus” (the abyss of inactivity) (2 Peter 2:4), and finally destroyed altogether in Gehenna (aka – “Lake of Fire” – Revelation 20:7-10). There are beau coup questions about this whole concept, but the one that is fascinating in this setting is “How?” How do you imprison a spirit, especially if they are as depicted in the movies where they walk right through walls, squeeze through keyholes, and the like?
Sure, there could be some substance they are susceptible to, like Superman is affected by kryptonite, but let’s use the “profane” version of Occam’s Razor that is preferred by the man in the street: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Probably the simplest and best solution would be that the Life Force is channeled directly into whatever actions they desire, like electricity is channeled into a light bulb, which immediately creates light.
Then it becomes easier: They could be “imprisoned” by simply cutting down on their supply. Like the light bulb, the lower the supply of power, the dimmer it gets, until finally it can’t shine at all in spite of the fact that it is still physically intact. The final “Gehenna” step would be when the light bulb gets stomped on, for no matter how much juice you stick to it then, it won’t work.
If they are constructed in that manner, then the whole concept becomes simple and easily understood. As such, it is a model that can be used until something better comes along or we make some discovery that disproves it.
Did God create the angels prior to man?
To the best of our knowledge and understanding, yes.
In the King James, Genesis 6:4, "There were Giants in the Earth in those
days; and after that, when the Sons of God came in unto the Daughters of
Men, they bare children to them, the same became mighty men, which
were of old, men of renown." You will notice that "after that" is underlined
and this would indicate to me that the Giants (Strongs Concordance refers
to them as Nephilim, as does Gesenius' Hebrew/Chaldee Lexicon) were not
the result of the Sons of God gettin' it on and that they were already here.
BTW, to further proof that the Sons of God were Physical Beings and not
Spiritual, Genesis 6:2 and 6:3 indicate that the Sons of God and Man are
Flesh.
As to Genesis 6:3, where, speaking of man, it says that “he also is flesh”, good point. The way it is translated does indeed sound like God is saying that “man is flesh like we are.” It is reinforced by Genesis 1:26, “And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness . . .”
However, let’s not eliminate other possible meanings without examination.
For instance, there is another possible meaning that can’t be ignored. He was speaking of mankind and even as we do at times, we sometimes use similar terminology to indicate that there is an additional factor to consider here, such as “Also, don’t forget he is flesh,” meaning “After all, he is only human,” with an implied feeling of mercy or sympathy for mankind due to the predicament they find themselves in. His words just before that, “My spirit shall not always strive with man” tend to reinforce this second possibility, in that he recognizes that the only reason mankind is in the doghouse in the first place is that they are “only flesh", had been connived into wrongdoing by someone that they couldn’t hope to compete with, and are therefore deserving of mercy.
There is a similar possibility with the words “after that” in the timeline of the Nephilim.
It could be valuable to compare translations and see how they render both of these passages. For instance for Genesis 6:4, the New World Translation says: “The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men …”(Underlining ours.) If this translation is accurate it makes the question moot, for it is merely extending the time that the Nephilim existed. Many other translations phrase it similarly. Check out the comparative translations here: http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Gen&chapter=6&verse=4 (Click the “Parallel” tab.)
Also, be careful of assuming that the underlining means extra emphasis is being placed on the word. It may mean something else, for instance, Hebrew (and most other languages) can’t be translated directly into English because the sentence structures, etc., are different, so sometimes they will insert words in it that will clear up some fuzzy area so that it makes sense to English speakers. Most translations put such words in parentheses or brackets. We’re not sure how the King James does it.
However, let this pass now, as we don’t want you to think we are sidestepping the question. :)
The above explanations are inadequate in themselves. So let’s go back to Genesis 1:26 again. When he says, “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness. . .”, there are at least two ways that could be accomplished. The first would indeed be that God and the angels are flesh and we are like them.
Another, and more likely one, would be that we are similar in our mental attributes, as we can plan, use abstract logic, reason, etc., etc. just as Jehovah the God of Abraham and the angels do, but that the animals cannot. In that sense we would be alike in the same sense that a man and woman can look at each other after discovering that they have the same interests and say happily, “We are just alike!” (Then you hear wedding bells, rugrats show up and you suddenly have a family.)
However, there isn’t enough in these scriptures to come to a definitive conclusion on which way is meant. Therefore the wisest course could be to go on to other scriptures to see if they weigh in on the subject. Sure enough, the more of them one examines, the more the scales tip towards these second possibilities. For instance:
Ephesians 6:12 where it actually differentiates between the two; “because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but . . . against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.” If the “wicked spirit forces” are blood and flesh, then what’s the point of the first half of this scripture?
Then in a comparison between Exodus 33:20-23: “And he added: “you are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live. And Jehovah said further: “Here is a place with me, and you must station yourself upon the rock. And it has to occur that while my glory is passing by I must place you in a hole in the rock, and I must put my palm over you as a screen until I have passed by. After that I must take my palm away, and you will indeed see my back. But my face may not be seen.”
And 1 Timothy 6:16; “the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. . .” “Unapproachable light?” Like the center of galaxies, perhaps?
Some would argue that man could not live in instances like these because he is forbidden to see God and will be executed for insubordination if he does.
However, if we consider the obvious goodwill God had towards Moses in the Exodus passage, as well as his effort to get as close as possible to granting Moses’ wish, wouldn’t it stand to reason that flesh and blood simply cannot physically withstand such an environment? Think about it: We can’t look at the sun or even an arc light very long without ruining our eyes.
Furthermore, if God and the angels travel to and from the earth and are made of blood and flesh, how can they withstand the rigors of outer space? We know what will happen if an astronaut’s spacesuit gets a hole ripped in it. It ain’t pretty.
So it appears that this is one of the few times that most of the churches of Christendom are correct. It appears that the angels (and the demons before the flood) had the technical knowledge to manufacture a body and inhabit it. Most of the pagan faiths have a similar belief.
And that brings us to the next logical problem.
MATING WITH HUMANS? HOW?
Let’s save that for next week’s installment.