"IMPERFECT MEN"

by thinker 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • thinker
    thinker

    Sometimes I like to do a websearch just to see what pops up. I used the term "imperfect men" at google recently. Thought you might be interested in some of the results.

    "Although the overseers are imperfect men, there is no need for anyone in the congregation to hold back from being submissive since it is Jehovah's arrangement and he will hold the overseers responsible for their actions." - Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry, 1983 p. 39
    The full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 3 (p. 76-77, 1908)
    Was Russell talking about the GB?

    The reason the Bible does not clearly teach the Trinity doctrine is simple: It is not a Bible teaching. Had God been a Trinity, he would surely have made it clear so that Jesus and his disciples could have taught it to others. And that vital information would have been included in God's inspired Word. It would not have been left to imperfect men to struggle with centuries later. (Watchtower 11/1/91 p.23)

    "The Eternal has been merciful by showing that church organizations are run by imperfect men that often make self-seeking decisions." Worldwide Church of God

    "The guru must be a perfect man. If he is not, there will be scandals in due course of time. If the governing body either allows imperfect men to be gurus or establishes a flawed system of initiations, this will also eventually lead to scandals." KRISHNA
    "The purpose of human law is to lead men to virtue, not suddenly, but gradually. Wherefore it does not lay upon the multitude of imperfect men the burdens of those who are already virtuous, viz., that they should abstain from all evil. Otherwise these imperfect ones, being unable to bear such precepts, would break out into yet greater evils..." Thomas Aquinas
    "The effective practice of the Christian faith in this world will always cause tension among imperfect men,even redeemed imperfect men." Presbyterian Church in America
    "All faiths are a gift of God, but partake of human imperfection as they pass through the medium of humanity. God-given religion is beyond all speech. Imperfect men put it into such language as they can command, and their words are interpreted by other men equally imperfect." M.K. Gandhi
    "I only said this to you regarding the New Testament so that you would understand that God deals with us as imperfect men in an imperfect world awaiting deliverance from the curse of sin (Romans chapter eight); and that God uses those who are imperfect to convey his perfect will imperfectly for those of us who are imperfect. As such, imperfection is a part of the written revelation to us by imperfect men in an imperfect world with imperfect preservation and the interposition of those writings of deceptive character, regardless of the motivations for doing so." Letter from a baptist
    IMPACT stands for Imperfect Men Prayerfully Accountable in Christ Together and that really describes what our men’s ministry is all about.
    But since no Perfect Church exists
    Made of Imperfect men,
    Then let’s cease looking for that Church
    And love the Church we’re in. (Brethern in Christ Church)
    "The Book of Mormon does contain incorrect grammar. Real prophets are men, good but still imperfect men, chosen by God to deliver his messages to the rest of us." (LDS)
    Yes, the Torah is a document filled with the lives of imperfect men, trusting in the providence and grace of a perfect God. (Jewish)
    "What belief can we place on imperfect men, especially since we have no means of ascertaining the full nature of their imperfectness." Brahmanism
    "The fathers of the faith were all imperfect men." United Methodist
    The purpose of this paper is to present the stories, as much as can be known, of these men, the founders of the Minnesota Synod, and in doing so to show how our Lord does His work through such weak and imperfect servants.
    "I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught." Joesph Smith
    When you look at the fellowship of the Spirit as God looks at it, it is downright silly for puny and ignorant men to talk about "withdrawing fellowship" from other brethren, the sons and daughters of the Lord almighty, who loves them and cherishes them as His own. Of course men can put you out of their synagogues and Jesus said they would (John 16:2). But anything fleshly and imperfect men can put you out of, you are as well off out of it as you would be in it. Being in it will not save your soul and being out of it will not damn you. All it will do is to free you from tyranny!

    These are just the religious contexts and don't include the Greek idea that "women are imperfect men" nor the poets idea that "trees are imperfect men".

  • patio34
    patio34

    M-m-m-m, and here i would have guessed it was a dubism.

    Thanks, Thinker.
    Pat

  • Guest 77
    Guest 77

    Thanks for the info search Thinker. I like Joseph Smith's the best, "I never told you I was perfect; but there is NO ERROR which I have taught." Joesph Smith WOWZEEEEEE, did he ever hit the nail on the head.

    Guest 77

  • TMS
    TMS

    Thinker,

    When Charlie M. left Bethel in 1959 he was very tight-lipped about his experience. All he would say: "I learned this is an organization of imperfect men."

    He privately dissuaded me from even thinking about Bethel service.

    Obviously, the "imperfect men" disclaimer is used as a buffer from stumbling over the actions of individual adherents to a "perfect" cause. The reality is that all these causes are really imperfection squared:

    Imperfect men following the imperfect rules of imperfect men imperfectly.

    TMS

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    A very old brother always took the emblems and he had worked at Bethel many years. He summarized those years like this, "Bethel's a good place to go if you want to die."

    A good friend was accepted to Bethel but came back after a few months. I don't know what he told the local elders and his parents but soon after his return they disfellowshipped him.

    My guess is they both experienced not just some arrogance but homosexual overtures from those over and around them. In fact I know another JW who partook of the emblems as an annointed starting while at Bethel.

    He said he had seen it going on while there, also much drinking. Last I heard Daniel Sydlik of the Governing Body was over all the Bethelites.

    Those are just the simple facts like it or not.

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    Happy, this may also help you:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0914675168/qid=1013965790/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9763191-8923803
    Most know Ray Franz's Crisis Of Conscience but not his IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM. I belief the reason C of C is talked about a lot on this board but ISCF rarely is is because in ISCF Ray mentions the highly desirable traits of a replacement movement which he names and calls the Free Christians movement.

    I am happy to say that I am a Free Christian. Today an estimated 1,000 or even more readers are Free Christians. Though free to differ and continue fellowship regarding Bible and religious matters most are non-trinitarian, see hell as symbolic instead of literally a place of eternal fire, believe resurrection will be on earth which be restored to paradise for some but to service with Jehovah's Christ in heaven for others, continue witnessing by mouth though not at every single door and by leaflets and doing acts of kindness.

    Individuals are encouraged to form their own local Bible Study Groups using the Bible itself (e.g. the New International Version) and stay independent but led by the one overall spiritual leader, Jah's Christ, who is the most faithful and discrete or wise slave. Jehovah's own Spirit appoints you directly in heart and mind to do so. This being "independent but cooperative" and "united by love and simple Christian basics" is what has worked for most all non-Catholic churches over 400 years and is believed to have worked for the earliest Christians until Rome imposed absolutely uniform beliefs hundreds of years after the apostles. Jehovah's Kingdom is still in heaven though on earth there is an orderly arrangement for Christians including those in the Free Christians movement. There is no formal judging or disfellowshipping but the Bible itself tells how to decide if or not someone is loving and Christlike or scandalous and wicked.

    Again, Ray's blue print for the movement in ISCF also says fellowship is possible for all Christians based on the simple points listed at Hebrews 6:1-2 and principles such as mercy, and kindness or LOVE which the Bible again and again (read Matthew 12, John 3:16) emphasizes. Unity is most of all from love, and unity is not the same as imposed uniformity which only cults can and do enforce. The narrow path recommended by Christ is one of love instead of forced uniformity. Ray's book, so little known to you though first issued in '92 will be new to most of you but is in fact superior even to his earlier C of C. Most FC meet via the internet and in private homes. Why not join with us? There is a newsletter in English and with Spanish summaries, the Free Christians Newsletter that includes a weekly Bible reading.

    [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

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