Double-think

by voltaire 7 Replies latest jw friends

voltaire

I have gone round and round with my wife about JWs and disfellowshipping. I'll be DFed soon. Our marriage, which wasn't so hot for the last year, is pretty well shot now. I try to explain to her that being DFed for simply disagreeing with the WT is offensive to me. When it's announced to the congregation, everyone will assume that I'm a bad person, or at least that I've done something terrible. It feels like slander. She denies that JWs think that DFed people are neccesarily bad people! Here's a typical exchange:
ME- DF is a form of slander. People will assume that I've done something terrible. All of my friends will hate me.
HER- No they won't. We don't hate DF people.
ME-Then why are they going to shun me? Because they like me so much?
HER- We have rules. If you don't want to follow them, you don't have to be a JW. You're free to leave.
ME- That's fine. But why would an organization treat people so badly? Why is there no "honorable way out?"
HER-We don't treat people bad. You're free to stay or go. There's no slander.
ME HELLO (Dripping with sarcasm, I try to control myself, sometimes I don't make it very far, this is my admission of guilt) "The dog returns to its vomit" That's not very complementary. Besides if I'm not a bad person, why do they teach God is going to kill me at Armageddon?
HER- I don't know for sure that he's going to kill you. That's for him to decide.
ME-(Foaming at the mouth) I've been a witness all of my adult life! I pioneered for 10 years, I was an elder for God's sake! You're trying to tell me that Jehovah isn't going to destroy apostates at Armageddon?
HER (Silence)
ME (Silence, except for the sound of foam dripping from my mouth and splashing onto the floor)
We haven't been able to have a sensible conversation for well over a year. The odd thing is, she's a very intelligent woman. She's no Fred Hall or one of the other looneys that frequent the board. I liked the JWs better under Rutherford. He taught weird stuff, but he didn't lie about it. Babylon is a WHORE! Aluminum kills. I like my nut cases honest.
The denial is the most offensive part. If I could get her to just be frank about our situation. But I think that they realize that it's not a defensible position. Their only hope is to confuse the issue. She's not trying to hide the truth from me. She's trying to hide it from herself.
Billygoat

(((Voltaire))) I'm so sorry! I know a marriage is difficult under good circumstances. But I think you hit the nail on the head:
She's not trying to hide the truth from me. She's trying to hide it from herself.
You're making her think outside her comfort zone. Of course she's fighting it and trying to "hide" where she feels comfortable. Your questions are cracking open her belief system. That's pretty damn scary and nobody wants to be scared.
My suggestion is to not be rabid. Ask her point blank questions and try to get her to reason with you maybe. Play on your love for each other. But don't be foaming. It'll only scare her further into her protective shell.
My two cents,
Andi
voltaire

She definately has a comfort zone that's hard to get into. I understand because I remember being afraid to even THINK certain thoughts at first. About a year ago she told me point blank that she wouldn't even consider answering any hypothetical questions. They made her too uncomfortable. I feel for her, I really do. I don't get too rabid, I was exagerating a little for effect. (I did used to get pretty worked up about it, but I realized the truth of what you have posted, that it was terribly uncomfortable emotionally for her to even contemplate what I wanted to discuss) The problem is this; if two people can't be honest with one another about these most important of issues, it's nearly impossible (for me at least) to have any kind of real relationship. I really do feel offended by all of this(the DF), deeply hurt. And she won't even acknowledge that the society does any of the things I find most offensive! It's as though one mate had a serious drug problem that was harming the marriage, but you could never talk about its effect on your relationship, because the problem would be denied.
out4good3

My wife's the same way except that when pushed outside her comfort zone, the defenses come up, then come the lame duck canned excuses they've been programmed to give. And when that doesn't work, then you're accused of nitpicking the organization to which I reply, it should be nitpicked when the stakes are so high. I constantly tell her that if it's truly the truth, then it should be able to withstand at least a modest amount of scrutiny without the elder police coming down on you. It almost impossible to have a rational conversation with JW's even when you can see it in their eyes that they know you're right.
I'm thinking of dropping a morsel of information about the WTS\UN thing just to see how it flies. I'm guessing that my still JW relatives don't even know anything about it. I know I'll be sure to get an eventual elder call about that one.
Voltaire quoted:
[ About a year ago she told me point blank that she wouldn't even consider answering any hypothetical questions. They made her too uncomfortable.]
Been there and done that with my wife too. But I'm met with silence when I point out the fact that what the WTBTS print out is mostly hypothetical, misleading, propaganda that perpetuates their view that they are the sole channel of communication to God worthy of absolute and unquestioned loyalty, and that if you strip away the doctrinal bullsh**, it's nothing more than a Real Estate and Publishing empire built upon the biggest probably most successful pyramid scheme ever imagined.
LDH

((((((((HUGS)))))))))))
Voltaire, the only thing I can think of that would help you would be to have an attorney write a letter to that sack of shit congregation you belong to.
In it, the attorney should state emphatically:
You have broken NO RULES which should cause you to be ostracized. Any attempt to forcible excommunicate you from the congregation and alienate you from your wife would be met with legal action.
In all of this, don't forget that the WBTS has applied to the UN to be an NGO on the basis of human rights, of which they are trying to violate yours.
Good Luck, keep us posted.
Lisa
DIAMOND

Geez, I thought I was the only one going through this. It sounds as if we are all married to the same women. My wife and I fight so much about the samething. And I like the way everyone has put it...Comfort Zone. Thats exactly what it is.
My wife defends the truth even when she knows its wrong. Her answer to me is. If the Slave Class is telling us wrong information. If the Elders are doing the wrong thing. Then Jehovah will take care of them and we will still be saved. So as you can see there is no talking to this women. I just wish she could see the wrongness of the org.
I LOVE THIS PLACE!!!!
diamond
ChristFollower

...Jaw Drops...
Her answer to me is. If the Slave Class is telling us wrong information. If the Elders are doing the wrong thing. Then Jehovah will take care of them and we will still be saved.
What do you say to something like that? I'm sorry for you. At least she said what she thought. I think that is what a lot of JW's think, but don't go around saying because they know it doesn't make sense.
How is it that listening to a bunch anonymous; uneducated; "uninspired" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) writers that appoint themselves on a Governing Body at the WT is "ok"? It's ridiculous. If they are doing things wrong, and the elders are doing things grossly wrong, and the things they teach are grossly wrong, tell me again why I should stay? Who gave them the title "God's only spokesperson and Saviour of the world"? They don't have it. Salvation isn't through belonging to an organization. I dare them to show me that it does.
Can you tell JW's don't stay at my door long? Nowhere does it say in the Bible that salvation is through belonging to an organization.
The WT isn't the Holy Ghost (no matter that they think they are). The WT isn't a mediator between men and GOD (that is what Jesus said HE was). The WT isn't the Jewish priestly system. Jesus said that "where two or more are gathered in my name", He is there. Notice that there is not a requirement for the Borg Organization to be there too with their schizophrenic logic to spread. Man, it's amazing the head job they do to people.
</EndRant>
I can't imagine being married to JW, must be very rough.
jiutman

Diamond
the Bible says that the followers of a false prophet will suffer the same fate as the false prophet. She is in deep.
Voltaire,
Get out!!! I am sorry about your marriage, do what you can to save it, but get out of the congregation. I have never been a JW so I cant say I know what you are going through, but your salvation may depend on it. Good luck and I will pray for you. J

Double-think

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