WHAT SCRIPTURES DO THE JW'S USE TO BACK UP THE PRACTICE OF DISFELLOWSHIPING/DISASSOCIATING? WHAT SCRIPTURES CAN BE USED AGAINST IT? I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY HELP WITH THIS. THANKS J
?'S ABOUT DISFELLOWSHIPING
by jiutman 7 Replies latest jw friends
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2SYN
Erm, press your Caps Lock key ONCE. Thank you.
There are so many Scriptures that they use you might as well throw the whole Bible in. The primary ones seem to be the ones in the New Testament where Jesus talks about himself dividing families, and also Paul's admonitions to not mix with unfaithful people. I'm sure there's many more, but since I haven't opened a Bible for years (nor would I want to) I can't really help you with this.
Anyone else care to cite some more examples?
The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age
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Pureheart
Hey Jiutman,
Here is some information about why JWs disfellowship people.
Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit
“No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.”—HEBREWS 12:11. God’s fatherly discipline, which can affect our spiritual lives, can take many forms. One is his arrangement to exclude from the Christian congregation a person who no longer wants to live by God’s standards, or who refuses to do so. A person who is thus strongly chastised or disciplined may repent and turn around. In the process, the congregation of loyal ones are also disciplined in that they learn the importance of conforming to God’s high standards.—1 Timothy 1:20.When a man in Corinth was unrepentantly immoral, Paul told the congregation: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) The same was to occur with apostates, such as Hymenaeus: “As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning.” (Titus 3:10, 11; 1 Timothy 1:19, 20) Such shunning would be appropriate, too, for anyone who rejects the congregation: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”—1 John 2:18, 19.
Pureheart
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dungbeetle
In the 'Organization book' <gag> <choke> it says things like:
"We must be obedient to the truth with genuine, heartfelt love for God, and his righteousness for our brothers if we are to remain clean in this way. Only then will God's spirit, which is alos holy, guide us.
While on earth, Christ Jesus set the example for those who would form his congregation of anointed follwers. His purpose finally to "present the congregation to himself in its splendor...holy and without blemish."
After Jeusus' death and resurrection, the apostles and others taking the lead among the early Christians showed great concern for maintaing the purity of the congregation....Not only the anointed remnant, but the great crowd of "other sheep" appreciate the need for keeping their identification (represented by white robes) as clean servants of God, separate from the world.
Wherever dissension and disunity exist , there is evidence of some unclean force working."
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Under 'Judicial Committee" no scriptures are given to justify this arrangement.
You may also notice, that a 'requirement' for confessing a private sin to 'older ones' has no scripturally listed support as well.
Some people like to use the Scripture where Paul says "take the ...person and put him out from among you, that he should be just as the man of the nations, not even eating with such a one, not even exchanging a greeting with such a one."
What I really like, is explaining to Jehovah's Witnesses that expulsion and enforced shunning is 'new light'. It is a recent addition to the religion. And that in the beginning, the list of conduct covered was very small, and over the years the list has grown and grown.
I love throwing that comment about the 'disunity means the demons are around'. When JW's respond about..well, imperferct humans and all that...well, that isn't what your OM book says. Do we hear major doctirnal flip-flops anyone?
You can see why this book is so 'secret' as well as the 'elders book', neither of which are available on the Watchtower cd-roms. hmmmmmmmmm.
In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"
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jiutman
Thanks pure and db. I appreciate your responses. In talking to a JW friend of mine, I asked him about the org judging people. He said only Jesus judges people. Well, if a person is DF'd or DA'd hasnt the org senteced them to anahilation? your thughts?
Is there no scripture that would suggest we counsel people and love them, not turn your back to them? J
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ThiChi
Though withdrawal of fellowship is scriptural (1cor 5:11), the Jws misuse this. Ray Franz second book, In Search of Christian Freedom, has a chapter on the Misuse of Disfellowshipping. Ray really gives the scriptural proof why the Jws have it all wrong.
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dungbeetle
Not that anyone ever listens to me BUT...
Jesus ate with sinners, and when confronted with it said that doctors are for sick people, not the well.
There is only the one scriptural example of 'shunning' and it is ambiguous at best. We know what it was that the 'subject' did, but the biblical account is silent about HOW the information came to the Christian's attention; exactly what actions constituted the shunning; the congregational organizational steps that resulted in the 'shunning'; what organizational steps that led to the 'subject's 'acceptance' and what his status actually was upon his return and thereafter. The scriptural account also doesn't say exactly what the subject did to 'make things right'.
What this group of men in Brooklyn/New York/Pennsylvania had to do in order to build a large facet of their religious organization around this ONE SCRIPTURE is to break a lot of Scriptural principles that had been accepted for centuries.
1) Not to add to or take away from the Scriptures. To take that one scripture and build a religion around it, they had, as can be shown, to completely add into the scripture a lot of things that aren't there. Paul specifically stated that if anyone came with a different doctrine than what was taught them, they were to be accursed...he said it twice for emphasis.
2) Since the person was 'living' with a woman, he obviously was an adult. To practice child baptism, expuslion and enforced shunning on minors and using this scripture for it is patently ridiculous and violates a lot of scriptural principles, and I believe the Watchtower is slowly but surely being held accountable for this Man-made traditon it's been practicing; for example Bulgaria, Russia, Canada, France and even here in the United States.
3) Jesus said he wanted mercy, not sacrifice. James said to provide the 'neccesities for their body'. Jehovah said that the sacrificing of a child 'did not even come up into his heart'. Jesus made it clear, with his historically famous illustration of the Samaritan, that we are to do PHYSICAL GOOD WORKS even--if not especially--for people of different religions. The practice of expulsion and shunning children and those that are in need of mental health care and intervention obviously violates everything Jesus came to earth FOR. These practices are obviously man-made and added TO the scriptures.
4)The Watchtower likes to say that expulsion and shunning is analgous to captial punsihment that the governments practice. And Jesus said this WHERE? The Bible says this WHERE?
Just a few thoughts; believe me there are plenty more.
In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"
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ThiChi
“”Is there no scripture that would suggest we counsel people and love them, not turn your back to them? J”
1. The parable of the Prodical Son. He was welcomed back without shunning. Remember, Paul’s words are pointed to persons who are fornicators, who are greedy ones, not persons who in the past did these things. Ray Franz covers this in detail.
2. The parable of the Shepard leaving the 99 sheep to find the lost sheep. The sheep was brought back and welcomed. No shunning.