I'd like to hear from a Watchtower apologist please

N.drew

Proverbs 6:16

NWT:

There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are detestable to his soul: lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding inocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.

Hebrew:

are six

these

hates

YHWH

seven

(untranslatable mark)

loathsome

[Tolaites ; Or tonebah {to-ay-baw'}; feminine active participle of ta'ab; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol -- abominable (custom, thing), abomination. (keep in mind please that it is written: "Heaven and Earth will pass away"]

him

[nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion] Please keep in mind GOD is love. God does not change.

eyes

exhalted

tongue

falsehood

hands

shed [this translated word for "shed" is found only once more in the Hebrew Scriptures according to Englishman's Concordance-Ezekiel 23:45]

blood [this one also is found only once more in the Hebrew Scriptures according to Englishman's Concordance-Joel 3:19]

blameness (do some of 6 billion come to mind?)

heart

devises [another clue scripture which according to Englishman's Concordance has the sense of "plow" and also is related to a word "together". Think "one mind"]

plans [also thoughts, plotting] Think legalism or salvation according to law

wicked [also misfortune]

feet [according to Englishman's Concordance always used in a negative context]

rapidly [one use only in Hebrew Scripure]

to run [three uses; 1 samuel 20:6 and Psalm 19:5]

to mischief [one occurrence meaning adversity] [also traslated from word "ra", which is the name of a god, isn't it?]

utters [this word is interesting. it means blow upon, break, puff, bring into a snare, speak, utter and is used four times in Hebrew Scripure at Psalm 10:5, Psalm 12:5, Proverbs 6:19 and Proverbs 12:17

lies [also Proverbs 14:5,25 Proverbs 19:5,9 Proverbs 21:28, Proverbs 23:3, Hosea 7:13

witness

false [see Exodus 20:16 please]

spreads [one occurrence means also "sow"]

strife [one other occurrence at Proverbs 10:12 it means discord]

between translated "among"

brothers

***************************************************************************

My question is how does this NOT describe the members of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society?

Tater-T

Wow .. when I first started reading the list .. I said, 'sounds like the congergation I went too!'... really .. oh forgot what you were looking for ....

The society is made up of imperfect people.. don't let it stumble you.....

N.drew

According to how I read that scripture and the other related ones I surmise that they might cause HEAVEN to stumble.

Is the Bible written for world or for both Heaven and Earth?

My other post :) says Revelation 18:4,5 means that her sin affects the very heavens. (her sins have reached to heaven).

These two scriptures are twins. Also, "you will reap what you sow" is triplets to it.

World is propagating hate for the one to whom salvation belongs. Can world be saved as it is hating the savior? My limited understanding says "no".

Messiah came for the world to be saved through him.

Antichrist is taking salavation away. I suspect that is where the notion of "going to heaven" came from because there would be no more Earth to be made for peaceful living.

Time is not a linear sequence of events in my humble opinion. "Rolled up scroll" means rolled up time. "In the wink of an eye" change change everywhere. How will we respond? Most people respond as though dead or drunk. The dead don't care, the drunk don't see strait.

Phizzy

There is an old thread on here that asked WT apologists to leap in and prove that JW's are God's chosen organization, it ran for over 20 pages, and the apologists ran off with their tail between their leg and their book bag.

They do not seem to visit here anymore, but good luck with your request, I think anyone prepared to stand up on here and defend the WT is about as rare as rocking horse poo.

You would think that the fact that they cannot make a "defense to him who asks" should alert them to the fact that they are not in God's Organization.

If it were His , and "The Truth", it would be easily defended, and would stand any scrutiny.

N.drew

You would think that the fact that they cannot make a "defense to him who asks" should alert them to the fact that they are not in God's Organization.

Thank you Phizzy for that serious feedback. You are right and perceptive!

I might joke around a lot, but I think it is OK to be serious but to also enjoy the way. It is one life that I know. there is no need to waste it.

caliber

There’s the break-down between six hateful things and seven detestable things. Why did Solomon do that? Why not just seven things that God hates? Look at the seventh – a person who stirs up dissension in the community. we gather folks around us to complain to and convince ..I think this is good food for thought .....for us all to reflect upon in our own minds & lives

Whatever commandment there may be, is summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law

N.drew

Thanks caliber!

I know God is love. So then the scripture does not say Yahweh hates those who do those six things. I think it means those who persist in doing those things hate Yahweh.

Then the seventh one means it is the one thing which caused The Lord to act against those doing those things. He must. Why?

1 And He began to speak to them in parables: “A man PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT , AND DUG A VAT UNDER THE WINE PRESS AND BUILT A TOWER , and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. 2 “At the harvest time he sent a slave to the vine-growers, in order to receive some of the produce of the vineyard from the vine-growers. 3 “They took him, and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 “Again he sent them another slave, and they wounded him in the head, and treated him shamefully. 5 “And he sent another, and that one they killed; and so with many others, beating some and killing others. 6 “He had one more to send, a beloved son; he sent him last of all to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7 “But those vine-growers said to one another, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!’ 8 “They took him, and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard. 9 “What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others.

cedars

N.drew - in my experience, apologists only show up when you don't want them to!

Cedars

yourmomma

jw apologists are almost extinct, good luck finding one, lol

possible-san

N.drew.

These Scriptures (Proverbs 6:16-19) are introduced from the Aleppo Codex on my website.
A certain Japanese ex-JW requested this to me.
http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/pages/murphy/proverbs0616.html

My question is how does this NOT describe the members of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society?

Well, I guess that most people who are in this forum are probably ex-JWs.
And I am also ex-JW and was JW apologist formerly.
But, probably, neither I nor ex-JWs in this forum were not liars, IMO.

Although insincere JWs may sometimes come to this forum, I think that most of JWs are sincere followers, IMO.

When we blame active JWs/R&F, probably that is "irrelevant."
Our main target is not followers/R&F/AM-HAARETS but the Governing Body/ Borg.

It is they/GB/Borg (Present-day pharisee), not followers/R&F/AM-HAARETS, who are insincere.

Of course, this is my own opinion.

possible

I'd like to hear from a Watchtower apologist please

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