The gossip card - a tool for control among elders?

by cedars 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cedars
    cedars

    Hi everyone

    I was having a few flashbacks today to my time as a die-hard publisher, both when I was "reaching out" for the transition from servant to elder, and from my time as an elder. Both of those positions bring with them an often unsavoury insight into the habits and methods of elders when it comes to controlling the congregation, particularly those in higher levels of congregational responsibility whose methods aren't always popular or appreciated.

    It struck me as inappropriate at the time that the "gossip card" was brandished by certain elders all too readily, especially if it was an unpopular elder who had a bad reputation for making people's lives miserable. The elder would speak in a sombre tone about the seriousness of people gossiping about him, and how this urgently needed to be brought to an end - with stern words to be meted out to anyone "caught in the act". At no point was it considered that the "gossip" might actually be justified, and might signal the need for the elder to reassess how he went about his role. The onus was always on the "gossiper" to put up or shut up.

    Obviously, nobody likes to be gossiped about. However, if you're an elder, it's inevitable that people will talk about the way you wield your authority among themselves, whether the sentiments are positive or negative. Indeed, it swings both ways, and if you're doing your job properly, you have every reason to hear of nice things being said about you among congregation members.

    However, I found that certain elders would hear only negative things filtering back to them, and would automatically see the problem as being external rather than inward. It seems to me slightly unbalanced that you should be perfectly willing for people to talk about your antics among themselves if the tone is positive, but loath for them to do so if they have any genuine concerns over the way you treat people.

    Obviously, the first port of call, if someone has genuine concerns, should be for them to approach the person towards whom they have a grievance. However, what if that person is a harsh and domineering totalitarian, and way too intimidating to even consider approaching in such a manner? Isn't it natural for someone to think twice in such an instance and confide in a close friend? Does that really constitute "gossip"?

    So, when does voicing concerns with close friends in confidence become "gossip"? I guess it very much depends on the individual circumstances. But in my experience, it isn't always so black and white as some elders would have you believe. If you reach out for positions of responsibility, and you treat people like crap, you shouldn't be surprised if they talk about it among themselves. Raising the gossip card is just further evidence that their concerns may indeed be justified.

    Cedars

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    I can speak to this personally. At one time I was in a cong where a close realative of mine was the PO. He ran the hall like a Natzi.He had said and done things that had many (including myself) very discouraged. I confided some things to my best friendin strictest confidence. She thought these things were so outragous that she decided (without telling me), to tell her father who was the PO in a neighboring cong. He, in turn, called up my realative and reported what I had said to his daughter. the next thing I knew, I was in the back room in a committee meeting for slander and HE (my relative)was prisiding over the meeting

    I was very respectful but stated that I believed every word I said to be true so I didn't see how I could be accused of slander. He was very angry and demanded,"Where did you get your information?" I calmly and honestly replied, "From your wife." She had been trying for years to get other elders and COs to recognize how he was abusing his authority both in the cong and in his own home. He always got out of it by saying his wife was mentally ill. (she was simply severly depressed).

    At any rate since the source of the info was his own wife, and since I was able to fake an apology, the matter was dropped. About a year later he was removed for (of all things) betraying confidences! Which was the LEAST of his many offences!

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    I have seen this too. Certain elders will wield their power to get 'justice' for themselves.

    It is amazing that when a publisher is the target of talk, we are often told to forgive and forget, which is truly the Christian course. However, when an elder is the subject of talk, he can use his position against the individual who talked about him. Why would he not recuse himself being part of rendering judgement? Perhaps if they were truly slandered, he could seek justice and report it, but sit in the judicial committee? This is a conflict of interest!

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    Londo, I agree that there was definately a conflict of interest in my case. This same elder/relative had previously presided over a comittee that dfed my 1st husband. Of course, he should have reqused himself. both times-but didn't and there was nothing we could do about it except move-which we did.

  • cedars
    cedars

    3rdgen - the bully elder (as I like to call them) who dragged you into the committee meeting should not have been selected to serve on the same committee that was judging a matter in which he was personally involved, for obvious reasons. Did you try raising this at the time? Also, the first stage in settling any dispute of that kind is to apply Matthew 18, and try to get the parties to iron out any misunderstandings between them. It seems like your bully elder jumped a few steps in the process and went straight to the kangaroo court, which fortunately you were able to hop out of with a few well chosen answers!

    It's sad that guidelines on gossip and slander are used as a tool of control by elders.

    Cedars

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    The elders are just imitating the manipulative tactics they observe the WTBTS using to control the masses.

    No doubt they think they're being "theocratic" when they do it.

    bully

    They look all nice in neat and respectable in their suits and ties, but they are still bullies.

    Bully in a suit

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Eldering the Flock of God tm: not how it's meant to be, just how it often ends up working in actual practice:

    Elder

  • flipper
    flipper

    CEDARS- As a long time publisher ( was a MS for 6 years , never desired to be an elder ) I realized early on in my JW upbringing that there was a double standard- two sets of rules as you will - as to elders gossiping about rank & file JW's and getting a " get out of jail " free card or pass for it , yet rank & file JW's were NOT allowed to question or even doubt or talk negatively about elders due to being appointed by the fictitious "holy spirit". I would observe my older brother, my dad, my brother in law at family gatherings all sitting around discussing openly in the living room some " brother " or " sister " that were having " attitude problems " and they'd discuss methods to rectify the " problem " . It annoyed me and made me nauseous at the same time.

    Bottom line is rank & file JW's are expected to be silent as a church mouse concerning elders mistakes or " weaknesses " - yet elders can blather on all day long about rank & file JW's mistakes . Even if it's unjustified. And many times it was. I know, I was victimized by unjust dealings from elders. There was NEVER any check system in place to make sure that THEY were giving proper counsel. No one calls them to account if they give misguided counsel. WT society just assumes elders will counsel properly due to the alleged " holy spirit " appointment. It's really quite a joke . But it's not funny when millions of people are controlled by misguided freaks

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