challenges to door-to-door in stratton, ohio

by Moxy 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    fascinating case taking place now in ohio.

    from http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm

    For Immediate Release
    February 25, 2002

    U.S. Supreme Court to examine anonymity and free speech

    Tomorrow the Supreme Court of the United States will hear oral arguments regarding whether it is constitutionally permissible for a municipality to impose preconditions on anyone who merely desires to speak with his neighbors about an issue they are interested in. Should anyone who wishes to advance a cause be required to obtain a permit from the local authorities and produce identification before being allowed to call from door to door? The Supreme Court will look closely at the right to speak without such restrictions under the provision known as "anonymous political discourse."

    Professor of Law David A. Goldberger, a First Amendment scholar at Ohio State University, explains the significance of the case this way: "In this case, Stratton Ohio officials seek to require a permit to hold one-on-one conversations about religion and politics. A loss by the Jehovah's Witnesses in their efforts to go door-to-door on a religious mission without the gratuitous involvement of the government could ultimately mean that the government could require a permit to walk up to strangers on a public sidewalk to talk to them."

    "This basic right includes any cause-related speech," comments attorney Paul Polidoro, who will be presenting the oral arguments on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses. He points out that "it has never been the desire of Jehovah's Witnesses to accomplish their public ministry anonymously; in fact, most Witnesses identify themselves early on when engaging a householder in conversation. But should a secular authority determine the appropriateness of extending or withholding permission from someone who simply wants to speak by going from door to door?"

    Internationally, Jehovah's Witnesses take seriously the God-given commission to share the Bible's hope with all humanity. Collectively, they spend more than a billion hours each year in carrying out that assignment. The message they bring has comforted many listeners. Of the various forms that their ministry takes, the Witnesses view door-to-door calls as an essential way of reaching every individual. The decision whether to engage in a conversation has always been a personal one for the resident to make. Jehovah's Witnesses feel that the decision should remain a personal, as opposed to a governmental, matter.

    "We highly esteem our freedom of speech, as our words are an intrinsic part of our worship," stated organizational spokesman J.R. Brown. "For this reason, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot conscientiously ask for any human's permission to speak about God's Kingdom."


    http://library.northernlight.com/FE20020225890000060.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0

    In a small Ohio town, a fight over the right to knock on doors

    Story Filed: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:36 PM EST

    WASHINGTON, Feb 26, 2002 (The Christian Science Monitor via COMTEX) -- If you want to solicit door to door in Stratton, Ohio, you have to get a permit. The rule is as simple as that, say village officials.

    Permits are easily obtained from the mayor's office. They cost nothing. No one has ever been turned down.

    But that's not the problem, according to lawyers for a group of Jehovah's Witnesses seeking to spread the gospel in Stratton. They insist that Americans have a constitutional right to walk door to door and talk with residents without having to first apply for permission. They also say people have a right to do it anonymously - without being forced to disclose information to local authorities.

    Today, the Jehovah's Witnesses' battle against Stratton's solicitation ordinance arrives at the US Supreme Court in a case that will determine whether the permit requirement is a permissible regulation of door-to-door activity or an unconstitutional prior restraint on free speech.

    It is a subject of great interest to cities and towns across the nation who are looking for ways to protect residents from possible fraud by con artists and the nuisance of uninvited doorstep solicitors - including those on a mission from God.

    Free-speech advocates view with alarm the growing number of local ordinances restricting such door-to-door activity, noting that the quality of free expression in America is under siege by municipalities seeking convenience, safety, and privacy at the expense of First Amendment liberty.

    "The last decade has witnessed a dramatic surge in the number and severity of antisolicitation laws," says Von Keetch, a Salt Lake City lawyer, in a friend-of-the-court brief filed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in support of the Jehovah's Witnesses. "Municipal officials increasingly believe there are few, if any, constraints on their ability to severely limit door-to-door evangelism in their jurisdictions," Mr. Keetch says.

    The issue is not new. The US Supreme Court in the 1930s and 1940s struck down a series of municipal ordinances aimed at preventing religious groups from spreading their messages door to door. The Jehovah's Witnesses fought the bulk of those battles and is again in the spotlight.

    At the center of the Stratton case is the village's requirement that prior to receiving a permit all would-be door-to-door solicitors must first disclose their name, home address, their employer's name and address, and a description of their planned activities. Once this information is collected, a permit is issued. Solicitors are instructed that they must produce the permit and identify themselves if so requested by any resident or police officer.

    To officials in Stratton and their supporters, the permit is well-balanced tool that allows solicitation but discourages criminals from circulating in the village and protects residents' privacy.

    To the Jehovah's Witnesses and their supporters, the permit amounts to an outright ban of anonymous door-to-door solicitation and pamphleteering - including political advocacy.

    "The free one-on-one exchange of ideas is a pillar of our democracy," says Paul Polidoro, a lawyer for the Jehovah's Witnesses, in his brief to the court. "Stratton has devalued both the constitutional right of speakers to express information and the constitutional right of residents to receive it if they so choose."

    Abraham Cantor, a Concord, Ohio, lawyer representing Stratton, says the solicitation ordinance is different from others that have been struck down on free-speech grounds by the Supreme Court.

    "The Stratton ordinance does not require a disseminator of ideas, whether religious or political, to place his name on the literature, wear a badge, or outwardly proclaim his identity in any manner," Cantor says.

    The ordinance was upheld by the Sixth US Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati.

    The appeals court brushed aside concerns about restricting anonymous speech, despite a 1995 US Supreme Court decision that established by a 7-2 vote a constitutional right to distribute political fliers anonymously.

    Justice John Paul Stevens wrote the majority opinion in the 1995 anonymous pamphlet case. It says in part: "Under our Constitution, anonymous pamphleteering is not a pernicious, fraudulent practice, but an honorable tradition of advocacy and dissent. Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority."

    It remains unclear how the seven justices who supported anonymous pamphleteering will view a case involving anonymous soliciting.

    Cantor, Stratton's lawyer, says door-to-door solicitors do not enjoy a constitutional right to remain anonymous when they are on private property.

    "The Supreme Court has historically indicated that the home is a sanctuary," he says. "It is the right of the homeowner to maintain and retain his privacy."

    Polidoro counters that there are easier and more effective ways to protect privacy. Residents could post "No Trespassing," and "No Soliciting," signs outside their homes and then prosecute anyone who ignores them, he says.

    By Warren Richey Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

    (c) Copyright 2002. The Christian Science Monitor

    see also: http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/docket/00-1737fx.html
    http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=3363923&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21849&rfi=6
    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20020110_hudson.html

    now there are two things are find interesting here. one is the problems JWs have with bans that are less than total. One senses that they prefer to be locked up or tarred and feathered and run out of town rather than being told to apply for a free permit before they preach, as in this case, or to be told to restrict their activities to certain days and times, as in quebec. after all, they are still free to fulfill their commission, arent they? what if door-to-door callers were required to explain who they are and why theyre calling and to ask the householder for permission to proceed before they can say anything else? this is similar to the restrictions on phone salesman in several states. would this be considered to 'amount to an outright ban' on JWs do you think?

    the other thing that interests me that i want to throw out is the question of free speech. i expect that most here consider themselves strong free speech advocates. i certainly do. at they same time, im guessing that some of these same people would like restrict the JWs preaching activity. would you consider this stance hypocritical? if not, why not?

    thoughts?

    mox

  • messenger
    messenger

    Will JW's go along with using an identification card? See Below:

    WATCHTOWER
    BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.
    25 COLUMBIA HEIGHTS, BROOKLYN, NEW YORK 11201, U.SA.
    PHONE 625-3600
    April 1, 1982

    TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS

    Dear Brothers:
    Reports coming to the Society on territory coverage indicate that it is becoming increasingly difficult to gain entrance into apartment complexes and condominiums. In some places legal suits have been threatened if the brothers continue to enter buildings. Often methods used to avoid detection while working buildings have resulted in poor relations with the management as they are concerned about security. How can we reach these people with the good news and at the same time show respect for the difficult task placed upon managers and superintendents? (Matt. 10:16) Herein are some suggestions that might prove helpful.

    In high security apartments and condominiums there are generally rigid rules about any kind of door-to-door activity. Managers and superintendents must answer to a board of directors for security. So they ask us to leave even though they may not personally be opposed to our work. When this is done we should immediately leave as requested since refusing to do so could be considered criminal trespass and result in arrest and criminal conviction.

    Some progress has been made with managers of these complexes by arranging for representatives of the congregation to approach the managers or superintendents personally in a kindly way, explaining the nature of our work and seeking their assistance so we can in some way communicate with the tenants. How has this been accomplished?

    Decorum and approach play an important role. When approaching these men it is best to be positive but respectful. If the reaction is unfavorable, it is best to acknowledge or agree to the extent possible and express empathy for the job he has in keeping the building secure and safe from strangers. It may bring a more favorable response if we offer to arrange for one married couple to come once a week or do only a few doors at a time and check in with the office before entering and when leaving. [bold]If it is requested, there is no objection to asking publishers witnessing in the building to wear an identification badge.If concessions are made to allow limited door-to-door visits, it would be good to establish a certain specified time that visits will be made so the superintendent knows when to expect those who will be working in the building.[b/]
    It would also be good for the ones chosen to become personally acquainted with the management and/or superintendent.

  • Jourles
    Jourles

    ...

  • Scully
    Scully

    I do not see the obtaining of a "permit" such as the one the municipality of Stratton is proposing to be an infringement on the right to freedom of speech/worship for JWs.

    We teach our children not to talk to strangers. We caution wives and girlfriends and sisters to not allow unidentified persons into their homes. If a person representing themselves as an employee of the gas company or cable company or phone company, etc, comes to my door without ID and without my having requested a service call, they don't come into my home. Period.

    Homeowners and tenants and other taxpaying citizens are entitled to maintain the security of their premises and themselves. The municipality to which they pay taxes (Caesar) is trying to implement a means whereby the citizens know who is coming to their doors. If a JW is rude to a householder, an ID tag with their name on it could be reported to the authorities, and possibly their permit could be suspended or they could be reported to the local congregation by the civil authorities. Currently, when a JW says something offensive to a householder, the householder has no recourse.

    Nobody complains about having to obtain a drivers' licence in order to drive a car, and in some places you have to pay a fairly hefty fee, plus insurance in order to obtain that licence. This proposed permit is FREE, and all JWs have to do is apply for it.

    They're making constitutional mountains out of molehills.

    It's only persecution because they are making it into persecution. They are the ones filing suit against the municipality, not the other way around. Who's persecuting whom here?

    Love, Scully


  • KJV
    KJV

    The Constitution of the United States is archaic. If the Founding Fathers of America knew that by giving freedom of religion, there would be "Satan worship" in the future, you can rest assured that "freedom of religion" would have been written differently. "Freedom of Speech" does not mean "Invasion of privacy",
    and that is what the Watchtower spooks do when they go to someone's door. We have caller I.D.'s on our telephone's to protect our privacy. Why can't someone who calls at our doors, and we don't know them, be required to carry an I.D. when their motives are either to recrute or sell something.

    We are all upset because of the brain-washing that the Society has done to us. The attorneys prosecuting the Watchtower should use this info that the apostates have to help their case.

    I feel strongly that the Constitution has to go. It's a joke!

    KJV- from the "Survival of the Fittest Class".

  • buffalosrfree
    buffalosrfree

    The case that the WTBTs will present will show that Scranton is trying to inhibit all free speedch when all they want is to have the people going door to door identified as to who they are if we know that we know the purpose they intend. Police, electricians, gas men, plumbers etc all have id to show who they are when they call. And if they don't we shouldn't let them in. The jdubs aren't in it to just walk up to someone. they are there basically to convert you. We should all know who they are when they come to our doors. In fact coming to my door isn't a freedom of speech right, If it was my having you not come to my door is all a freedom of speech right as i exercise my freedom of speech by not listening to thier tripe, Whbose freedom of speech is it anyway mine or thiers.

    This is just another bull manure episode of the WTBTS, in the Silver strand and Bay view congregations in Imperial beach California, some of the dubs, go up to Coronado, to harass *er excuse me* to conduct thier public ministry, and for many many years they have taken a list of all personnel involved to the local police station to inform they of who would be out in the town ministering (hehe) and just where they would be located. So whats with Scranton huh>

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire
    "The free one-on-one exchange of ideas is a pillar of our democracy," says Paul Polidoro, a lawyer for the Jehovah's Witnesses, in his brief to the court. "Stratton has devalued both the constitutional right of speakers to express information and the constitutional right of residents to receive it if they so choose."

    WHAT!!! free one-on-one exchange of ideas a PILLAR

    You mean I am free to have a one on one exchange of ideas with my sister??? You mean it's a pillar of "our" democracy? WOW -- I sure wish I had known THAT when I was a dub!!

    And what's this about the right of listeners to listen to the message IF THEY CHOOSE. Since when do dubs give householders a "choice" when they wake them up on Saturday mornings? Since when do they care that your whole family is gathered for Christmas dinner when they rudely interrupt??

    Moxy, to answer your request for opinions on free speech for the JWs, I am all for free speech. But if you come to my door, I want to know who you are and why you're here UP FRONT. Then you can be free to share your "message" with me IF I say I want to hear it first.

    Also, I am for free speech but AGAINST fraud. This isn't a relgion. It's a business in disguise and it's racket and a fraud. There are laws against fraud. More people should take that avenue to sue the asses off the WTS!

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    BuffRFree:

    You said:

    This is just another bull manure episode of the WTBTS, in the Silver strand and Bay view congregations in Imperial beach California, some of the dubs, go up to Coronado, to harass *er excuse me* to conduct thier public ministry, and for many many years they have taken a list of all personnel involved to the local police station to inform they of who would be out in the town ministering (hehe) and just where they would be located. So whats with Scranton huh>

    When this Case was being discussed at GreatCrowd.com, the JWs there were asking the same question, and even mentioned 4 or 5 other towns across the US where JWs had been checking in with the police depts for years and years.

    WELL, the answer to the question is that the WTS has been waiting for "just the right City and circumstance" to take this issue to the Courts.

    First, when this whole thing started in Stratton, Stratton only had a population of 285 people. Not much of a tax base! In Stratton, the WTS thought that they found an opponent that they thought that they swamp-over.

    Second, Stratton's Mayor stuck his foot in his mouth when he first stopped JWs in FS for not having a permit. I can't recall his exact words, but they were somewhat prejudicial against JWs, and the WTS provided the quote to the earlier Courts, and every newspaper that would use it.

    There were likely other factors involved too. Past court decisions in Ohio state courts dealing with similar issues may have been favorable, etc., etc.

    At any rate, "Goliath" was looking for a sickly, weak opponent to 'er "BUFFALO", but ended up fighting against a "David".

  • FreeFallin
    FreeFallin

    Polidoro counters that there are easier and more effective ways to protect privacy. Residents could post "No Trespassing," and "No Soliciting," signs outside their homes and then prosecute anyone who ignores them, he says............................

    I've been out in service with aggressive sisters who ignored no trespassing signs saying "they don't mean us, though."
    Talk about shaking in your shoes on THOSE calls.

    Free

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