Passover and the Memorial is this correct ?

by jam 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • jam
    jam

    Contray to the Passover regulation that required male

    circumcision and all members of the family to participate,

    the Lord"s supper is to be observed only by those whose

    faith in Christ has led them to commit their lives to Him.

    Matt.26:27 Jesus instruction, "drink of it ALL OF YOU, is

    A directive to ALL believers to partake of the lord"s supper.

    Unlike the Passover, which was inseparable from the

    history of one nation, Israel. The redemption accomplished

    by Jesus is available to believers of all nations and races.(Gal.3:28)

    Do you agree???

  • Quarterback
    Quarterback

    Well, the context of Mtt 26 states that he was presently, seated with all his 12 deciples, and was speaking directly to them. It became a directive to be observed until all of his anointed followers were to be with him in Heaven as noted in a preceding verse.

    Mtt. 26:29 But I tell YOU, I will by no means drink henceforth any of this product of the vine until that day when I drink it new with YOU in the kingdom of my Father

    Eventually, this directive will end when the last anointed member dies, and is called to his position in heaven.

    That is how I have been instructed to understand it, and somehow, it kindof makes sense to me.

  • jam
    jam

    I guess I should explain . I trying to make it as simple as

    possible to show my JW daughter why all should partake.

  • Quarterback
    Quarterback

    Oooops. Sorry, I can't help you there. But, I'm sure that some on this site will support your view.

    Peace,

    QB

  • jam
    jam

    Thanks Quarterback, it,s A tough one. But I think others

    was present that nite, not only the 12.

  • OldGenerationDude
    OldGenerationDude

    You are on the right track, Jam.

    Just as all of physical Israel was obligated to partake of the Seder lamb, so are all of spiritual Israel obligated to partake of the Lamb of God. (John 1:29) Of course if you believe the Witness teaching that there is a limit to those who are part of spiritual Israel, then you are back to square one. However, as you have copied the word "you" in imitation of the NWT in its interesting (but often unnecessary) attempt, you highlight something that could be used with someone who is at least open to Christian history.

    The "you" in Matthew 26 is as Quarterback states, in reference to the apostles (not disciples--all Christians are disciples or "students). The English term for "apostle" is "emissary," meaning a person sent out with a message or a testimony. Jesus was speaking to them specifically, especially as written in Luke 22:19: "Do this in memory of me."

    The early church fathers saw this as a directive to the apostles which they were responsible to hand on to the rest of the church. According to Justin Martyr, writing about 150 C.E., the memorial of Christ's death was observed weekly, "on the day called after the sun," meaning Sunday. He described the weekly ritual, saying that "bread is brought, with wine mixed with water to the president," or the presiding Christian over the weekly worship service. Everyone present partook, except for the following, which Justin described as followed: "None is allowed to share unless he believes the things which we teach are true, and has been washed with the waters that bring remission of sins and give a second birth, and lives as Christ order us so to live. For we don not receive them as ordinary bread and ordinary wine, but as Jesus Christ our Savior."

    The Didache (or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) agrees, giving the following instruction for all members of the congregation: "On the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks, having first confessed your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure."

    While the Witness might want to insist that the writings of Justin Martyr are not part of the Bible, and that the Didache is spurious (it isn't spurious, per se, as it's being attributed to the apostles does not mean written by them personally but instead passing down their teachings), these do agree with the rest of early church history (and you would do well to read these from non-JW sources as the Watchtower heavily edits them and waters them down and has barely reprinted 1% of what actually exists from that period). And what does all this mean when tied together?

    Let's go back to Justin Martyr's words, that the so-called (by the JWs) "emblems" were not viewed as symbols or "ordinary bread and ordinary wine, but as Jesus Christ our Savior." The Didache calls this a "sacrifice." The early Christians believed that when Jesus held the Last Supper with the apostles, he presented to them his literal body and blood in a sacramental sense, or the literal life that God was to accept as a ransom via the body and blood on the following afternoon. While it looked and tasted like ordinary bread and ordinary wine, it was, as Justin wrote, something very different. Unlike you and me, as the early Christians saw it, Christ was not prevented by time from taking this literal sacrifice from the cross (or "stake" if you prefer) and miraculously offering it via a sacrament or physical representation. "Do this in remembrance of me" was seen as Christ telling the apostles that they could perform the same miracle, make that sacrifice present again (not repeat it, just make its literal value miraculously present across time) and offer the sacrament to others.

    The "you" is a plural, but restricted to the apostles only. The apostles, on the other hand, never limited to anyone except those who were not Christian and did not believe in the actual presence of Christ at the weekly memorial of his death (later referred to as the Sacrament of Holy Communion). Nothing in the Bible or in any of the creeds or Church Fathers ever unites the thought that the 144,000 of the book of Revelation was a literal limit to those who could partake. In fact, that book would be written at a time when most if not all the apostles to whom Jesus spoke to had already died (many scholars believe that the John who wrote Revelation, if not the apostle, was a disciple of the apostle himself, as it was an accepted practice to write in the name of one's teacher when spreading their teachings, such as 2 Peter and the several authors of Isaiah).

    The teaching of the apostles, as experienced by the first-century Christians, as attested to by people like Justin Martyr and later referred to in The Didache all agree that all Christians partook of the emblems, and that this was done every Sunday, not once a year. This is not written in the Bible because the Christian Scriptures as a library had not existed as an authoritative collection until the 4th century. The early Christians did not base their beliefs on the New Testament writings. They based they practices on what the apostles told them to do.

    The reason these directions do not occur in the Scriptures themselves is that the Bible was not meant to be the source of all teachings and truth for Christians. Jesus was seen as the living and ever-present Source of Truth, and they viewed the teaching of the apostles as the truth as well. While the Scritures include these teachings, they were never meant to be exhaustive as it was never conceived that anyone would separate from the church and take the Bible but not the teachings of the apostles with them. Even the Christian texts agree that the authority and source of truth for Christians was Jesus and the teachings of the apostles. (Compare John 14:16 with Acts 2:42.) Nothing is written anywhere, not even in 2 Timothy 3:16, that states that the Christians devoted themselves to the writings found only in the official canon, which was not created for several hundred years later. These writings were also canonized by the Christians only because they believed that devoting themselves to the teachings of the apostles outside of the New Testament gave them the authority to create the same New Testament.

    Yes, you will have to drop the Witness devotion to Bible-only. Christianity was never a Bible-only religion. Jesus did not say that those who would be saved must read and follow everything written in the Scriptures, and that salvation depended on this. No, the church is based on a Person, Jesus Christ, and the teaching and authority he passed to his apostles. And since the beginning all the church's members have been partaking, weekly.

  • Shanagirl
    Shanagirl

    Although the JW's have the false teaching that only a select few should partake of the "emblems" Jesus taught that he was the bread of life for ALL to partake of and have eternal life. Yet the JW memorial service is a rejection celebration of the emblems that only should be passed by all lest they recieve judgment. The whole idea of the memorial is so "anti-Christ" really. In John chapter 6 Jesus invited All to partake of his flesh and blood, as he was the bread from heaven that brought life.

    Shana

    J ohn chapter 6

    Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

    41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”

    43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ [d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

    52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

    53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

  • jam
    jam

    Thanks, OGD. Interesting, Christ's death was observed weekly

    on the day called after the Sun, (Sunday).

    Shana: Agree, "The whole idea of the memorial is so

    Anti-Christ".(JW,s).

    Again I must say, some of the most informed people here.

  • heathen
    heathen

    basically the apostle Paul left it up to the partakers disgression noone can say your not worthy but yourself , if you partake unworthily then you eat and drink judgement against yourself but if the spirit imparted in you is in unison with the spirit of God then you are what you claim to be a holy possesion of Gods. something like that....

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