Accountability: A good thing or not?

by Terry 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Terry

What WE set in motion we are accountable for.
If WE are accountable, then, why not the one who set US in motion?
If a builder constructs a stadium that later collapses, then, the builder is sued to hold them accountable.
God is the builder of the world of mankind.
Man is either self-responsible or self-irresponsible. And yet--we are told humanity is infected from birth with Original Sin.
This invalidates our thinking and behavior from the womb! Does this mean we are NOT accountable or that we
will be held accountable even if we are unable from birth to make good decisions?
Which is it?
If you broke it you pay for it. This is accountability. Otherwise known as JUSTICE.
We hold the one who breaks things responsible.
If you didn't break it you are not the one who pays. Otherwise that would be INjustice.
Still with me?
So, which is better? Justice or Injustice? Holding the doer of bad deeds accountable or letting them go scot-free?
If you say Justice is better then why is GRACE such a wonderful doctrine?
The sinner gets off scot-free.
Oh, that isn't INjustice, you say, it is Mercy.
Is Mercy just another word for NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
Why not hold God accountable too?
Every game has referees. When rules are violated penalties are exacted or else the game is chaotic and no Win is possible.
Is God qualified to referee?
He "forgives" penalities and allows the game to continue.
Getting what you "deserve" is Justice.
What extenuating circumstance invalidates Justice?
A soft Judge lets child molesters off, rapists walk free and murders get of with a lecture.
Should we praise such a Judge as "merciful" or should we impeach them?
Why?
Why not?
palmtree67

Oh, that isn't INjustice, you say, it is Mercy.
Is Mercy just another word for NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
Injustice or Mercy?
Which it is depends on the attitude of the sinner.
If they use the opportunity to make positive changes, then they have been shown mercy.
If the use the opportunity to continue on in badness, then an injustice has been done.
Accountabillity? That's an individual attitude. And yes, it's lacking sometimes.
We are all adults, and therefore are responsible for the choices we make.
When confronted with a "doer of bad deeds" (I'll use your terminology), we have a choice to either hold the person accountable or not. Some may choose to let the sinner go "scot-free"....Others may not.....it's each individual's choice on how to handle bad people.
But when they are let off "scot-free" and it's not appreciated, we don't do them any favors by ignoring, excusing or justifying their bad behaviour.
I see it all as CHOICES.
And if we make the wrong choice, then the responsibility for that choice is our own.
But I don't believe anyone should blame anyone else for their own choice and the consequences of it.
For instance, we can CHOOSE to walk away from the computer when we get frustrated, as I should have done last night.
But if we CHOOSE instead to have a temper tantrum and get booted off the board, that is nobody's fault but our own.
James Brown

If there is a God we cant hold him accountable.
Its his game, his sand box and his toys.
God and the bible stories may be a metaphor for what?
That depends on the one reading or hearing the stories.
Terry

Ever heard of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps?
If you are born corrupt by sin you would have to pull YOURSELF up even after being told right from wrong.
If they use the opportunity to make positive changes, then they have been shown mercy.
If the use the opportunity to continue on in badness, then an injustice has been done.
We are not magically endowed from power over sin after accepting Jesus no matter what anybody says.
The non-accountability factor continues as you are continually NOT held accountable simply by saying "Sorry."
palmtree67

We are not magically endowed from power over sin after accepting Jesus no matter what anybody says.
The non-accountability factor continues as you are continually NOT held accountable simply by saying "Sorry."
I don't understand what you're saying here.
Are you referring to someone who repeatedly says, "Sorry", but then continues to do the same thing they said they are sorry for?
Terry

We are not magically endowed from power over sin after accepting Jesus no matter what anybody says.
The non-accountability factor continues as you are continually NOT held accountable simply by saying "Sorry."
I don't understand what you're saying here.
Are you referring to someone who repeatedly says, "Sorry", but then continues to do the same thing they said they are sorry for?
There is NO CHOICE indicated in scripture:
Think of the lament of the Apostle Paul beginning with "Miserable man that I am..."
Romans 7:24-25 “Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with [my] flesh to sin’s law.” (NWT)
“14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For what I am working out I do not know. For what I wish, this I do not practice; but what I hate is what I do. 16 However, if what I do not wish is what I do, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now the one working it out is no longer I, but sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for ability to wish is present with me, but ability to work out what is fine is not [present]. 19 For the good that I wish I do not do, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, now, what I do not wish is what I do, the one working it out is no longer I, but the sin dwelling in me. 21 I find, then, this law in my case: that when I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I behold in my members another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my members. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with [my] flesh to sin’s law.

If you spend a few reflective moments on this scripture without bring to it your CURRENT understanding and examine it FRESH you'll see what I'm talking about. 1.Humans have no real choice in "right" and "wrong" because it is the SIN that affects "choice" and not individual unhindered rational thought. 2.God seems to want to hold humans accountable under Law while, at the same time, releasing them from accountability under Grace. 3.Sin continues either way.
Terry

Paul "solves" the problem of sin, so he thinks.
What Paul WISHES he could do (righteous practice) is all that counts because HIS THINKING is pure!
This is the mind/body dichotomy of Plato and the pagans doctored up as christian doctrine!
Sin, according to Jesus, EVEN INSIDE ONE'S MIND is still SIN.
Our thoughts are not private in God's world! There is no right to privacy.
If you think sinful thoughts and don't act on them--we might well ask--are we AS BAD as those who think sinful thoughts and then practice them?
Or, asked another way:
When is a Christian accountable for sin after baptism and repentence? Ever? Never? Sometimes?
The victims of our pre-baptism sins still suffer the harm, injury, damage and loss--do they not? Who addresses that reparation under Grace??
Borges

If you broke it you pay for it. This is accountability. Otherwise known as JUSTICE.
Accountability is not justice. Terms like justice or sin you can bend in any way you like. Depending on what basis you judge or who is setting the rules.
Getting what you "deserve" is Justice.
The same. Who is determinig what you deserve for certain deeds?
All the questions raised by Terry are based on the assumption, that there is a defined perception of justice or injustice, of good or bad, sin and although grace.
In other words, you need god, to come to ask these questions.
If there is no god, the whole conception of sin is obsolete. And justice is what an individual, a group or a society declares as such.
Reading this threat I'm so happy to be an atheist. I don't have to spend my time thinking about what God may think about what I'm thinking. I don't care about sin and do not waste usefull energy in blaming a nonexisting god for his creation failiures regarding mankind. Instead of trying to find the right place in the god-and-evil-matrix oft the bible (or any other religion), I look after myself and my beloved ones without doing harm to anybody else.
Terry

Getting what you "deserve" is Justice.
The same. Who is determinig what you deserve for certain deeds?
All the questions raised by Terry are based on the assumption, that there is a defined perception of justice or injustice, of good or bad, sin and although grace.
My whole point is that--assuming the bible's rules, laws, doctrines, dictums are God Established....
The entire Old Testament sets up a standard of Perfect Law and then, in the New Testament, knocks it on its ass by over-riding Justice and Perfection.

Accountability: A good thing or not?

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