Ray Franz can be used to "agree" with die-hard dubs!

MC RubberMallet

No serious Witness would admit maybe Ray Franz had a good point, nor point to him as noble. They will always attach negatives to him.

BUT, we can use that!

When one brings him up as Satan getting into the GB, we could say:

"That's why we should carefully scrutinze everything we read, even from the Society. Ray was on GB for 9 years, and even in Writing dept before that, so he planted countless number of apostate ideas in friends' minds without them knowing. Not even other GB caught on til later. How do we know if some ideas or teachings from any other member of GB is secretly putting his own ideas as "scriptural" ideas?"

Then encourage them that if they hear a teaching or procedure that they don't understand, rubs them uneasily, or goes even slightly against the Bible, do not ignore it. Address it. They could be following a man (or a group if a few members turned apostate). Remind them don't just soak things up and trust it because it's from the society without giving it serious thought to the God Jehovah is and the principles of what Jesus taught (in their minds).

Maybe this will help them to dig deeper and jumpstart cognitive abilities.

Chariklo

Interesting.

I suspect, though, the fully indoctrinated JW's will have an answer for it, something along the lines of "We have to do what the brothers say, because Jehovah will always sort it out in his own time."

Then they'll murmur somehting about trusting the faithful slave, and eventual new light.

rebel8

creative

MC RubberMallet

hmm, very true. Let me think about that one...

An apostate reasoning book!

ammo

Yeah I'm liking that RubberMallet

I'm in the process of throwing a few of those questions at study teachers now through email as I am not returning ever to a k hall, but I still have not figured out a way to tell people a- that I am never returning, and b- what I have learnt without them shutting down.

all I have come up with is the lame excuse of being on holidays for the last 6 weeks,and really busy with relations visiting. I don't want to hurt these people and I am finally understanding as why people would stay in so as not to lose their family, its funny cos when in, I felt I had less and less regard for people outside the Borg cos whatever the problem Jehovah would fix it eventually, now I know I will never set foot in a KHall again I really feel sorry for the people in it and yet if they knew how I felt they would never bother with me again. So I wonder am I now on the way to learning about true love for mankind....

Sadly most I have mentioned Ray Franz too have never even heard of him, its a tight little pen the sheep are kept in!

Anyway its sat morning here and the sun is shining and I'm feeling the love Brother!!!! :))))

Ammo

MC RubberMallet

I understand. It's a whacky tacky situation.

Have you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz? And Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan

Your liking the Ray's Franz idea or reasoning book idea.

ammo

I'm liking them both to be honest, maybe some of the brains could get together and put a little "how to sling shit and make it stick manual"

I sent a really long email a week ago to an elder about my dismay about finding the blood turnabout, and the generation changes,I also expressed my concerns that we are told to not look anywhere else but the JW material yet they quote other books, religions, scientists, etc when it suits them, they also encourage other religions to ask alot of questions about their own beliefs but you are regarded apostate if you do the same.Also the selma and steve article even though I never actually was at the hall my last day was april 5th memorial, thats the day I looked out from the back standing room only and I thought sadly brainwashed robots. I walked away with a very heavy heart that night knowing I could never go back feeling like that, it actually felt disrespctful to Jahs house, initially I wondered if Jehovah had take his hand off me and left me to the world- this is how screwed up my thinking was because its shoved down our throats stay close stay close in the fold, or you maybe electrocuted if you get to far near the fence, the shock could make you wake up for good, wow sorry bout that little rant... breathe ammo just breathe :))

Anyway this man and his lovley wife were at our wedding, sadly I have never heard back from them, and yes I have read COC and only about a third of CCMC through the scrib.com cos I had gone to every bookstore around and could'nt get a copy, COC helped me bigtime because as much as there are sad stories about some people here and how they have been treated, I really for the most part of it was treated with warmth and respect so I was restling more with things like being baptized to an organization, or having to fill in report cards when Jehovah sees everything, also the theocratic night seemed so fake and vacum cleaner sales convention like- kinda hard to swallow at times.

Anyway MC RM as stated both seem a pretty good idea, once I would of thought F.. it and just bail, but after being on this site the amount of people still in and then reading how they feel, makes me think maybe, some that I know would be having some doubts, lets face it you can't really air your thoughts amongst the clan when out on F/s or at a meeting, it suxs cos my last lot of study teachers said to me' apart from the food and utility bills we give everything to Jehovah' at the time I thought wow how commendable now I'm thinking NOOOOOO Don't Do IT!! They are in their 70s, man its just such a wrought when you really get to know the TATT!

BluesBrother

Watchtower 1964 5/15 p307

. In another country the secret police even produced falsified copies of a Watchtower magazine, with the same purpose of confusing the brothers. In drawing up this counterfeit issue of The Watchtower, articles from the genuine Watchtower magazine were taken and then twisted so as to serve the enemy’s purpose. But the brothers got to see the difference, and this scheme failed

Y/book 1994 p234

Because direct attack proved unsuccessful, the authorities made attempts to destroy the unity of the Witnesses from within. Enemies began publishing a counterfeit Watchtower containing information that slandered Jehovah’s loyal servants

Y/book 2011 Estonia p214

Jüri Schönberg, who had been arrested for refusing to do military service, was taken from the labor camp for intensive interrogation. A special KGB agent had traveled from Kiev, Ukraine, to Estonia to persuade Jüri to work for the KGB. The officer tried to show him that the literature of Jehovah’s Witnesses was antigovernment and full of mistakes. He gave Jüri some copies of The Watchtower to read, but although the magazines appeared to be genuine, Jüri refused to accept them. He was afraid that they might be some of the counterfeit Watchtowers that the KGB sometimes prepared to cause confusion among the Witnesses.

Do they not evcourage this attitude?

Acts 17 11 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.
Oh, silly me . That is only for those who currently belong to OTHER religions....

Ding

"No, no. Jehovah has straightened the GB and the Writing Department out. Go back to sleep."

Ray Franz can be used to "agree" with die-hard dubs!

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