Happyman - Your Answers

by Amazing 3 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Happyman: You asked regarding my series on the JFR Trial,

    ”I have difficulties to understand what you will say widh this storys, whats the point?”

    I stated this in the beginning of the series, and have made similar statements in some of the accounts. Again, for your understanding: The Watchtower Society has for many decades claimed FOUR important issues regarding the Trial of Joseph Rutherford and the other Society Officers; 1. That these men were “railroaded” off to an unfair, biased trial, where they received a rush to judgment and unfair convictions; 2. That this was persecution at a critical time when the Society (Rutherford) was exposing truth and revealing the established Kingdom, as Satan was cast out of heaven to disrupt the Kingdom message and detract from Jesus being enthroned as King of Jehovah’s Kingdom; 3. That this all fulfilled the prophecy in Revelation regarding the ‘death’ of the “Two Witnesses” and their subsequent ‘resurrection’ – hence the imprisonment of Rutherford and his fellows, and their subsequent release; 4. Discipline and punishment for unfaithfulness for the false teachings of the Society. (Yes, the Society teaches two opposing doctrines, one a reward for faithfulness and discipline for unfaithfulness in the same prophecy.)

    The central question I am dealing with is: Were Rutherford and the fellow Society Officers ‘railroaded’ off to prison by facing an unfair and rush to judgment trial? Many JWs have this vision of the government police raiding the Society and dragging off Rutherford and his fellows to a late night court, where a Magistrate hears some little amount of ‘trumped up’ evidence, and make a speedy sentance without any ability of the accused to have a proper defense.

    The Purpose of the JFR Trial Series: Is to show what “really” happened, and whether this was fair to the Society, Rutherford, or its officers. So far, the Trial Transcript demonstrates that Rutherford and his fellows had plenty of notice, time to get the best Defense Attorneys, a very fair Judge whom the Society got when they asked for a change in Judges ... a fair Prosecutor who dropped charges against Hirsh, a trial by Jury, a Jury that the Defense took far more than the usual time to question and excuse those they did not like, and keep those they liked. Thus the Society so far has not really told JWs the truth about the JFR Trial.

    You asked about breaking confidence:

    “My qestion abaout when you tell secrets things saying in confidence, was when you tell what for exampel elder and CO said too you , inn confidence, aspecaly time when you tell abauot this CO who say that he have some trubbel , and was to tierd to akt, i think he must be very desapionted to you if he read this, as you surley no, some things you say, is in confidence, and if I say things like this to anyone I have very much trust to this person, i think he must hade that, and as i see it you betrade him. This is what i find vey hard to understand, beucause i have a feeling that you are a very nice person, and i have been very tucht of your story.”
    First, I have broken no confidences with the CO, because I did not mention his name, the congregation or exact location. My name is not mentioned. Second, the Jehovah’s Witness religion broke it agreements and trusts with me by acting fraudulently, not properly representing their religion as it is in order to induce me to join in 1970 ... therefore, I am released from any such confidences if they existed.

    As far as my Justice Series, these too do not mention names, locations, dates, or exact circumstances. Professionals, such as psychiatrists, are bound by privilege ... yet they can take case studies from their files and write about these as long as they change names, dates, locations, etc. to conceal the private information of clients ... an example is the book, The Road Less Traveled” by M. Scott Peck. He is in the psycho-therapy field and wrote about actual cases.

    Lastly, the Jehovah’s Witness Elders are not directly taught to maintain any legal ‘Confidence’ because they are not deemed by the Watchtower Society as ‘Clergymen” and as such they have no real “Confessional Privilege” as do Catholic Priests and Protestant Reverends. However, the JW Elders generally are supposed to keep confidences, it is done mostly to protect the Watchtower Society, and not the individual Penitent.

    For the sake of those hurt by the Society and the confidences of the accused, I have never revealed names. Three of the JW men I know have public records as Child Molesters ... and I was never on their Judicial Committee. Therefore, I do not owe these sleeze-bags any privilege, and will at some point in time, reveal their names.

    You asked that I review several Scriptures and comment on them:

    “have you read my scriptures to you, i am waiting. am very greatfull that you answer my qestions, thank you very much. I can understand your point of wuie, even if I not compere inn evrything.”
    The verses you asked about read as follows. I copied them from the King James Version. I will add comments in bold: I am assuming you cite these Scritpures in application to my various series, the JFR Trial, my Exit Series, and my Justice Series. I will respond as though this was your intent:

    ”James 4:11 “Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.”
    I am not 100% certain why you cite this verse. The Watchtower Society speaks evil of former Jehovah’s Witnesses, lyingly saying every sort of wicked thing against us. As far as speaking evil of law, judging law, I am not sure what you have in mind here. I have not spoken against the Law nor judged any law. I am merely relating a Trial Transcript as to how the Government (Caesar) charged and prosecuted the Society’s officers for violation of the law.

    James 5:9 “Murmur not, brethren, one against another, that ye be not judged: behold, the judge standeth before the doors.”
    The Society murmurs against former JWs ... but this verse is speaking of our ‘spiritual brothers’ and the last I checked, the Society revokes our status as ‘brothers’ so, anything aid about them is fair game ... and as long as we tell the truth, or correct and apologize for any errors, then I do not see how this verse has any application.

    James 5:13 “Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.”
    Yes. Your point?

    1 Pet 2:1 “Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,”
    Yes. Your point?

    2 Pet 2:1-3 “1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:”
    Yes, the Watchtower Society has spoken many false prophecies. You make good application here by citing this verse. The Society has for decades spoken evil lies against many good Christians and Clergy ... and they have spoken some things accurately. But their false prophecies condemn the Society before Jehovah.

    2 Pet 3:3-4 “3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”
    The Society has continuously made false prophecies, and in effect set dates in the future for the promise of Jesus coming ... thus effectively put it off ... and failed to understand that Jesus coming could be at anytime ... and no man knows the day or hour ... so, genuine Christians live everyday as though it was the day of Jesus arrival.

    I Jn 3:11-13 “11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.”
    Yes. So why did the Society stop loving former JWs? Why did the Society kick us out with such false charges and weak evidence? Why do they refuse to listen to sense? The Society even teaches JWs, according to the July 1992 Watchtower to “hate” former Jehovah’s Witnesses. We, as ex-JWs have never said that anyone should hate Jehovah’s Witnesses. Therefore, who is imitating Jesus and who is imitating the World? Clearly, the facts show that former Jehovah’s Witnesses are the ones who imitate Jesus, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses are following the “world.”

    3 Jn 1:9-10 “9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. 10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.”
    Yes, the Diotrephes Class remains in control of the Watchtower Society, and they kick out the brothers and sisters, so that the Society’s officers can hold prominent places and look good in their own eyes.

    Jude 1:11-13 “11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”
    Yes, the Society puffs itself up like waterless clouds, and have gone the way of Cain by spiritually murdering former Jehovah’s Witnesses. They will have a heavy burden to answer before the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ, whom the Watchtower has disowned.

    Jude 1:18 “18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.”
    Yes, the Society mocks former Jehovah’s Witnesses, as the Watchtower leaders lust for more and more ungodly power over those they kick our of the organization.

    Obviously, you can see that I made application in some of these verses similarly to how I did in my earlier response to you on the 22nd of Feb. The verses you cite are those the Society often uses to make hurtful comments against anyone they do not like ... and I was simply reversing this to show how anyone can make such claims. No one I know of, and speaking for myself, I do not hate Jehovah’s Witnesses. I love and miss many JW friends. I hope someday they will be free of the religion so we can once again have fellowship.

    Now, here is a Scripture for you:Gal 4:15: “So then am I become your enemy, by telling you the truth?”

    Why is it, Happyman, that the Society treats former Jehovah’s Witnesses as enemies simply because we tell them the truth? Can you answer that?

  • metatron
    metatron

    If anyone wishes to make accusations about people who seek
    their own power and glory, let them look no further than the
    leadership of the Watchtower Society.

    They say "We are the Faithful and Discreet slave"

    Really! Says who? This is no different from the Proud Pharisee
    who prayed out loud about how righteous he was! And how wicked
    the tax collector next to him was (just like condemning worldly
    people and other religions).
    Are they 'discreet' as false prophets?
    Are they 'faithful' covering up child molesters and corrupt
    elders?

    metatron

  • happy man
    happy man

    thank you very much Amaizing, I think it is now upp to evryone who read this to draw his one conclusions.
    I have no problem widh to disscus this widh you,and i must say that it is a pity to lose such nice person as i think you is,
    All of uis must take the waywesee as the best, in evry religion it is errors, smaler and bigger, as i wrote before. I think you been like Job, treted bad, and i can understand your feelings.
    But i am sure of that Jehova will give all this men who have bad tretment blessing inn the end,
    so if we understand the bibel wright, and if we have the kingdom on erath, who i hope,i am sure we find you there.
    I an also sure of that if the ledaing brothers doing misstakes or make evel things, they will bee treated like the kings in Israel who did these things, as we all now, there was evel kings in israel, dipite thissIsrael was the nation of him.
    As one elder told mee, we will be surprised whenwe find who are inn the kingdom, some who we think must bee ther is not, and some who we neer think is there.
    It has been very nice to meet you A, i pray for you, and hope you not are to bitter, as we all now it is Jehova and Crist who judge, and not men.And i hope that you in your hart have a littel place for all this members inn JW who are faigthing on and try to do ther best, under this difficut times.
    my warm regards to you and your famyli from you brother in northern europe.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Amazing and HappyMan,

    Thank you for this discussion and its respectful tone.

    HappyMan, I may be wrong but much of your puzzlement about the behavior of XJW's seems to revolve around the whole issue of the exclusivity of the WTS in God's plan. The WTS as you know insists that its adherents view it as the sole source of God’s attention on earth and that JW’s are the only true Christians on this planet. Any thinking outside of this manifesto is allowed only on risk of judicial action being taken against a person holding views which vary from this tight application of theological policy.

    Now, this presents the WTS with a huge dilemma and one that they have not as yet attended to doctrinally. Let me explain because I think it will throw some light on the gulf between JW’s and XJW’s thinking.

    Matthew 25:31, 32 says this, and I quote from the NWT:

    When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people from one another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
    Now, as you know for many decades the WTS insisted that this scripture began to be fulfilled in 1919 and that JW’s were actually doing this work of judgment through their ‘preaching work’.

    In the late 1990’s the WTS changed its understanding of this scripture and now, as ‘Christendom’ has for many hundreds of years, applies it to the time of Armageddon.

    Their dilemma is that this understanding is at odds with the scripture in Matthew 13:24-30 which quite obviously applies to the same event. This is the parable of the ‘wheat and the weeds’. Matthew 13:29.30 says this:

    He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers. First collect the weeds’ and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to the gathering the wheat into my storehouse.
    Now, the problem is that the WTS is still applying this event to 1919. To be more accurate, if you noticed in the recent WT article dealing with this scripture, it was suggested that this actually applied, in the C1st, throughout history and 1919….lol Clearly great confusion rests in Brooklyn as to how to rationalize this scripture, but in order to maintain its exclusive view of itself The WTS cannot apply Matthew 13, where it properly belongs - at Armageddon.

    I think that I have noticed that even WTS apologist, You Know, who in all fairness seems to know his Bible better than all the GB collectively, himself suggests that this scripture is yet to be applied.

    I discussed this matter with a DO some months ago, and after trying to defend the WTS view, a puzzled look came over his face as the penny dropped. His answer, just the usual - ‘Well, I guess we will have to wait on Jehovah for a clearer understanding’.

    HappyMan, he is going to be waiting a long, long, time. The WTS cannot afford to accurately apply this scripture as they then become just one among thousands of groups that are, according to the Bible, awaiting judgment. They would then lose control of their adherents, and very quickly after that their Empire.

    Best regards - HS

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