BRING DOWN CLERGY-PENITENT LAWS IN THE US

by blondie 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  blondie

  These laws vary from state to state. Some states require everyone to report. Others have an adjusted law regard clergy reporting. Others still let religious leaders to hide behind this law.

  One way to improve things for abuse vicitims and the community in general is to make the reporting laws stronger by requiring clergy to report and have strong sanctions.

  Is There an Exception to This Rule?

  Indeed there is, but it is a very contentious issue. Often, problems with the clergy privilege arise in cases dealing with child abuse. Every state in the U.S. has laws requiring certain categories of professional people to report child abuse. There are 35 states which either require clergy specifically to report any child abuse learned in confession, or else require all people to report any child abuse discovered by any means (including clergy). In these states, the clergy privilege will NOT apply in such cases (and in many states, in cases of child neglect as well). The remaining 15 states do not include clergy in the list of people mandated to report child abuse, so presumably the clergy privilege remains intact there. However, many religious bodies (the Catholic Church being the most prominent example), do not recognize any constraint on the privilege, so there are many clergy who may refuse to testify about privileged conversations even if it IS required by law.
  
  There is also a question of applicability when the clergy in question is a trained psychologist or secularly licensed counselor, whom often have certain duties to report crimes by state law. In such cases, the relevant question is whether the confession was made to the clergy in his religious capacity.

  http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/clergypriest-privilege.html

  http://www.educatingtoendabuse.com/id19.html (abuse reporting laws by state)

  http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/TVNews/Nightly%20News/2007/11-Nov/reportinglaws.pdf

  You can help by checking what the laws are in your state, contact those who represent you in your state legislature, express your desire to see the laws strengthened in this area to require clergy reporting.

  If your state has strong laws already, contact the people responsible for that law and commend them for taking a strong stand.

  SNAP has local chapters doing this; contact them to see how you can help.

  www.snapnetwork.org

  Blondie
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  blondie

  btt
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  Diest

  Thankfully we already brought that down in CO. I hope those other 15 states change their laws soon. They need to be pressured to do so.
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  Band on the Run

  Blondie,

  I believe priest-penitent laws serve a valuable public function. Clergy can counsel penitents to stop. Many people will never speak freely. An exemption for child abuse is workable without losing all the benefits of the privilege. The trend across all privilege categories is to report if imminent bodily injury is threatened. The value of privilege is not diminished by the new trend to have exemptions. There should be mandatory reporting in cases of child abuse, threats to murder or hurt someone, etc.

  More and more states are exempting certain items from privilege. I wonder which states are lagging,

  I heartily endorse narrow exemptions. Also, I imagine clergy, therapists, lawyers must value the change. Imagine hearing such tales and not being allowed to warn anyone.
• 

  Paralipomenon

  I don't think confidentiality should apply to anything illegal.

  When you look at a JW elder, whose whole training is a book of rules, they don't have the training or experience to handle complex issues regarding the law. These laws are a holdout from a time when church and state were more closely integrated.

  If a church wants clergy rights, then they should pay to train all their priests as psychiatrists so they can make the proper judgement on what should be reported or not.

  Brown-nosing and putting on a suit shouldn't give any person the rights to decide what is safe for the public.
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  Band on the Run

  Part of the problem is that the privilege started when all Europe was Roman Catholic. I believe confession is a sacrament of the Roman Catholic Church. Protestant notions of confession are different. Also, I only know the English experience but most legal jurisdiction in England was ecclesiastical. Notorious criminals would rape, plunger, pillage, murder and then escape to church property, which was ever plentiful. If they could recite the first few words of a certain psalm in Latin, they were judged to be clergy and the secular authorities could do nothing. This changed greatly under Henry VIII and subsequent rulers.

  Confession, in general, is considered good for society. Of course, an educated and trained clergy was the ideal. I don't believe a religion should suffer b/c it does not promote quality education for ministers. The Roman Catholic Church had highly trained priests cover up sexual abuse. Confession is part of our cultural tradition. I do know that for the privilege to be upheld, the conversation must be religoius. If you see a minister for counselling, the privilege does not hold. I understand the ends of the spectrum.

  I don't recall Jehovah's Witnesses encouraging confession in my day. We were raised to believe that you never confided iin the org. Jehovah was fine but the org. was suspicious. It is very tragic for Witness youth b/c we are raised to give complete deference to brothers. Ordinary prudent rules about strangers do not apply.
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  blondie

  BOTR, you can only put so much in the title, thanks for clarifying that....the thing is that the WTS says they have no clergy, and are different in a good way from other religions.

  *** g 8/10 p. 9 What Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe? ***

  The clergy-laity distinction “All you are brothers,” said Jesus to his followers. (Matthew 23:8) The early Christians, including the Bible writers, had no clergy class. This Biblical pattern is the one that Jehovah’s Witnesses follow.

  *** jv chap. 15 p. 204 Development of the Organization Structure ***

  They realized that the Bible made no provision for titled clergymen, with a laity to whom they would preach. Brother Russell was determined that there would be no clergy class among them. Through the columns of the WatchTower, its readers were frequently reminded that Jesus told his followers: “Your Leader is one, the Christ,” but, “All you are brothers.”—Matt. 23:8, 10.

  *** jv chap. 15 p. 204 Development of the Organization Structure ***

  In 1894, Brother Russell arranged for Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society to send out qualified brothers as speakers. They were given signed certificates for use in introducing themselves to the local groups. These certificates did not confer authority to preach nor did they signify that what the bearer said was to be accepted without proper scrutiny in the light of God’s Word. However, since some persons misconstrued their intent, within a year Brother Russell had the certificates recalled. He cautiously endeavored to avoid anything that observers might interpret to be even the appearance of a clergy class.

  Zion’s Watch Tower , October-November 1881, pp. 8-9.
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  Band on the Run

  I so much wanted to act the lawyer questions concerning this privilege. Someone quoted the CA law regarding clergy/pentinent privilege. The statute used the word "sacramental." Perhaps I am mistaken but I thought the WT had no sacraments. When Protestant religions emerged that believed one can freely intercede with God without a priest class, the doctrine had to include them. I have no clue as to what happens in the KH behind the scenes. Counselling is not included in the clergy privilege. It strikes me that JWs practice counseling and not confession or penance.

  It is hard for me to conceive b/c the historical roots are in Roman Catholic practice. The RC Church has a forma ritual. Whenever I have discussed personal matters with an Episcopal priest, it was more of a conversation. I never expected forgiveness from God b/c I could confess to God. I wonder if Jewish people engage in a form of confession. The privilege was termed priest/pentinent but political correctness changed it to clergy/penitent. I'm assuming pennance must be involved.

  The totally unconsciable act is that Kendricks is still a member of Jehovah's Witnesses and active. Did his current KH have notice of his past before this verdict was announced. Knowing JWs, they may not know now.

  I wonder if it matters in the long run. Pedophiles are underground. Most people assume that a minister cannot repeat information to police authorities.
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  Jeffro

  But JWs don't have a clergy class. Until it's convenient.