Bible Based Talks Are No Longer Steak, 50-50 Hamburger Grind!

by Bubblegum Apotheosis 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Bubblegum Apotheosis

  What happened to the Watchtower Society's emphasis on learning your Bible, developing a stronger doctrinal foundation and providing talks that were relevant in peoples lives? Previous threads have questioned the lack of discussion/debate young or old Witnesses will engage at your door. The solution lies in the down sizing of deep Bible based talks, real substance discussed at Meetings has gone away. They are serving up half ground beef and half "Pink Slime". Have you ever tried to grill a burger with this ratio of meat to fat? The fire from the coals or gas will engulf the meat, the fatty pink slime causes a little inferno and your burger shrinks to 1/4 to 1/8 the original size. Garbage in equals garbage out, until they change their methods of teachings, encouraging along with basic life skills, things are going to get very ugly!

  The Watchtower is relentless with their pushing people into Field Service but not providing the tools necessary to do the job. You are micromanged in every facet at the Kingdom Hall, your comments are suppose to be less than thirty seconds. The friends cannot express their faith, without the clicking of a stop-watch, timing their every expression of faith! GB members or the Writing Group are so focused on quantity, that quality is discarded! In businesss when a company decides to cut labor, cut funds to fix infrastructure, cut advertising, marketing and basic repairs, you end up with the "Skeleton Crew" that treats everyone like crap, and drives customers away! Lack of love and apathy are taking hold of this beast by the neck, only love and quality Bible education can fight this mess.

  When was the last time you heard a really good talk, that did not push "Field Service", Obey Elder's Goofey Ideas" "Blind Obedience", Give, Self-denial, avoid education, don't think outside the Borg" a talk that did not blow smoke in your face, and focused on the needs of your congregation as a whole? Congregational needs that were not slanted at pleasing the "Time Keepers" from New York, but "needs" that would upbuild the spirit of the whole? I was tired of working with elders who were more concerned with what the Circuit Overseer thought, than what the Bible said to think about the Sheep. It's all about "Keeping up with appearances", you are assessed on how other preceive you, and time is not wasted on trying to get to know the real you. People really are discourage, tired of spinning their wheels, walking in place, trying to please the emotional and spiritual vampires from Bethel-Patterson.
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  Phizzy

  Good summary of the Watchtower/JW Org malaise.

  Long may it continue, then people will leave, those that stay will die of boredom.

  What you describe is the WT I remember of several years ago, they have ,it seems, got worse and not better, as I said, long may that downward spiral of dumbing everything down and not caring for members continue.
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  stillin

  yes, we the common folks do not have our own teeth for chewing spiritual food. It must be chewed first by the ones who have teeth. THEN we can put the mush into our own mouths!
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  DesirousOfChange

  The Watchtower is relentless with their pushing people into Field Service but not providing the tools necessary to do the job.

  The goal of knocking on the doors of empty houses in Field Service is NOT to recruit new members, but to keep the current R&F busy and feeling important and involved in the religion.

  They are serving up half ground beef and half "Pink Slime".

  Sorry to tell you, BA, but that is giving WT way too much credit.

  What you suggest means that they are providing 50% "meat" or solid food. No way! They are serving up Pablum.

  Doc
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  blondie

  Not to explain it away, but people in general were different back in my grandparents day 1900 to 1930, and before. People actually read their bibles, no TV, radio. People actually memorized bible scriptures, went to church more regularly. As the religious culture has changed, the WTS reflects those changes, as the people that come in from the outside are less intense about their religious beliefs, it's more social, improving the community, the world. 20 years ago I went to a wedding shower and one of the part games was to write down all the books in the bible (66), and the tiebreaker was to put them in NWT order. Out of 30 jw women, 75% jws for more than 10 years, only 2 named all 66, and only 1 in order. People who supposedly were looking up scriptures everyday, in personal study and at meetings (5x52 = 260 a year), a bible reading assignment every week, etc.

  I grew up on the Bablyon the Great book, Now is Finished the Mystery of God book, and 5 more studying bible prophecy. In today's world the explanation of 607/1914 is relegated to an appendix. I grew up hearing and knowing about agape, storge, philia, eros. Now the WTS says "a greek word meaning "their definition" and might mention the dictionary they got it from. When 1999 The Daniel Prophecy book came out everyone complained...too hard, or meat, it was only the regurgitated Your Will Be Done book from 1958 as the Revelation Climax was a dumbed down version of the Babylon the Great and Now is Finished...books. I remember my young days and their was discussion beyond reciting what was in the paragraph. Many of the jws remember preparing and using 7 scripture sermons to use door to door. Now most jws find it difficult to read one scripture at the door.
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  blindnomore

  Not only do they not give you tools, they actually take tools away from you. Tools, essential to go about basic human needs namely, housing, education, employment, human dingnity, pursuit of happiness, etc.

  Two points I brought home with me from a recent Circuit Overseer's visiting:

  1. When elders ask you to do something that doesn't make any sense, you do it without question. You don't need to know why.(Yes, I am not kidding. That's exactly what he said and I took note.)

  2. Less you know better you will be. It's all lie.(regarding internet and information. We had a CO in early May, pre-Candace Conti verdict. I finally appreciate Watchtower's propaganda on this particular talk prepared by the Governning Body.)

  When was the last time have I heard the scriptural sermon at the Kingdom Hall? I was telling my husband the other day that I need to do something quick in order to regain the faith. It may be too late. I lost most, if not all, faith in God from repeatedly hearing the utter garbage from the KH.

  I agree with Doc. You are giving Watchtower way too much credit. It's twisted mind controlling at its best. Beyond sad.
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  Cold Steel

  Back in the 70s, the Jehovah's Witnesses was an entirely different organization. Emphasis on the scriptures was entirely different.

  The Bible study they offer still is not an actual Bible study as there's no sitting down and reading the Bible. The studies are specifically scripted to lead a person to a given end, which is baptism. But even the most carefully scripted studies frequently go off track as people ask questions and present challenges. The difference is that now the Jehovah's Witnesses are far less able to deal with questions.

  They're also having to fight new discoveries and developments, and these can be overwhelming. For example, new discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library of Christian documents in 1947/48 have been disturbing as scholars have taken a long time to get to these fascinating documents. Also, the religion itself was comprised before the formation of Israel as a country, which was prophesied by prophets going back thousands of years. But the Bible students were blindsided by it. They had to dictate doctrine that somehow dealt with those prophesies before they were fulfilled. Thus they did what other Bible students before them had done. They spiritualized it. Jehovah was not gathering the Jews back to their ancestral homelands, they said. He was gathering spiritual Israel. And that must be the church.

  When Judah actually began gathering back to their ancestral homelands, it was too late. They'd already solidified their doctrine and they weren't about to revisit it given this new light. So when many Christians are presented with the JW spiritual Israel doctrine, they do what any logical, thinking person would do -- they show the JWs the door. So, too, are doctrines such as soul sleeping (the notion that people don't exist as spirits when they die). Because we know much more about first century Christians, we now know that, surprise!, they did believe in life after death. This was no surprise to people who knew their Bible scriptures, but it is a kick in the pants to soul sleeping believers. In fact, there's evidence that the early Christians also believed that man existed before he was born (Jeremiah 1:5). All this also has been backed up by people who have had after life experiences. Many tell of meeting people they knew before they came to this life. And these stories come from people of all religions and backgrounds. (My father recently died, and at one point he took my mom by the hand, smiled, and said, "I saw my mother." That's when we knew he was going to pass. He spoke to her and it was the first time in years that I'd seen him so happy. My grandfather on my mother's side had a similar experience, but he saw a number of his deceased family members.)

  All this has created problems for Witnesses. If they tell people that their loved ones were deceived by evil spirits, bang! They're on the street. Again, they're overtaken not only by events, but by first century Christian eschatology. The big difference is that older Witnesses knew how to push back. The new ones don't. They can teach from the book they carry, but if challenged, they have to find an elder who knows his scriptures and can argue for the JW eschatology. So yes, there's been a huge change in the way Witnesses interact with the public and I'm afraid it's going to get worse. They will continue to pick up Catholics and others who know there's something wrong with their religions, but don't know what. But until the church begins training them to deal with the above issues, I see more who will leave or have doubts.

  Finally, JWs are fond of criticizing "manmade religions," but their own religion also has all the earmarks of a manmade religion. There were no angelic ministrations, no commands from God, no divine guidance. Just Bible students who announced to the world that they had figured everything out. Well, big deal...at least the Seventh Day Adventists and the Latter-day Saints claimed divine interaction in their formation. There's no claim to guidance from on High with the JWs, no conferral of divine authority.
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  Healthworker

  Hi, Blondie!

  "As the religious culture has changed, the WTS reflects those changes, as the people that come in from the outside are less intense about their religious beliefs"

  This is their reasoning about why serving McDonalds food. The real reason maybe a little different. WT has allways claimed to be based solely on the Bible. Now that it is obvious that their day-to-day philosophy has no support in the Bible and also has damaged thousands of witnesses lives, they may not want any deeper discussion about their beliefs. Adding the fact that wikipedia gives a fair and balanced view of their history, few educated people would study to be a witness these days. The McDonalds food are reflecting that they focus on weaker people without education nor the ability of critical thinking. It's a shame. Also, their trapped of the FDS doctrine, building lie upon lie. Debate and sound discussion of bibilical topics are no longer of interest and they therefore warn witnesses against this.
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  Fernando

  As Jesus said, by their (increasingly rotten) fruit we would (eventually) recognise them...
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  DesirousOfChange

  The Watchtower is relentless with their pushing people into Field Service but not providing the tools necessary to do the job.

  The goal of knocking on the doors of empty houses in Field Service is NOT to recruit new members, but to keep the current R&F busy and feeling important and involved in the religion.

  This was actually said at the Dist Conv!!!!! (To paraphrase) Speaker acknowledged that D2D may not be the most effective way of delivering the message however that is not the only purpose of going D2D . . . . . . . . (drum roll) it keeps "us" busy in the most important life-saving work in history!

  YEP! KEEPS US BUSY

  Doc