Sam Beli,undecided , beck wasaS, and grandparents

by Patriot 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • Patriot
    Patriot

    I was wondering since you guys have put some serious time in with the WT, how it felt "back in the days" when major changes occured within the org.

    In recent times, it seems that only a few people stop to really think about the changes in doctrine that the WT makes, e.g. Generation theory, the voting issue and the certain parts of blood that are now acceptable.

    Did the same happen in your time? Did little or anyone at all complain, murmur, get "cold" or simply just leave when certain changes were made? For example, were any of you around for the constant changes made regarding organ transplant?

    How did people react to that? Not accepting an organ transplant and dying only to have the WT change their opinion a few years later can stir up comments in the R&F. Did it?

    How did you feel?

    Mav.-

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    Hi Patriot

    The doctinal changes had a big impact on my already fizzling faith...I grew tired of hearing 'wait on Jehovah' or 'Jehovah reveals things in his own time' blah blah blah.

    Like most people...unless an issue affected me directly...I wouldn't give it a second thought. The organ transplant issue didn't affect me...and so I accepted the new light in the spirit of conformity. I also noticed most of us accepted any new information and were willing to accept the challenge if ever our faith were tested. I was once tested with the blood transfusion issue...it is a long story...but I stood my ground and refused the blood...and at that time felt only a little fear that I would die...my faith was strong then.

    I can recall many occassions sitting and talking with zealous ones or pioneers...and we would discuss new light issues. Most spiritually minded JWs I knew were always willing to accept everything and anything new...I never once heard any expressions of annoyance or any disillusioned speech. As for me...I only felt it...I never said it.

    The main issue that lingered on my mind was the 'generation' issue. As a kid I studied the Paradise book...and then as a teenager it was the 'You Can Live Forever' book...and as an adult it was the 'United In Worship' book. I was bought up told that I would never go to high school...'Armaggedon would be here by then' was my mothers favourite statement...and still is to this day. Needless to say I went to highschool..and now my eldest daughter is almost finished high school.

    I have seen a few things over the years...and I can honestly say that JW are indeed sheeplike...they are willing to be led...and they are willing to have someone take the lead and direct them...whether it be the borg or Jehovah. If the borg says it is from Jehovah...the sheep will follow. At the time I was an active JW...I never once questioned the borg nor its right to be the faithful and discreet class distributing food at the proper time. I was a conforming sheeplike individual who rejoiced at being a privileged member of the 'great crowd'.

    Also, I think people kept their negative opinions to themselves...for fear of being accused of murmuring. If there was any murmuring in the congregation regarding doctrinal issues...I never heard about it. I probably would have kept away from it....or it kept away from me.

    Now I'm a totally different kettle of fish eh! :o))

    Beck

  • Sam Beli
    Sam Beli

    Hi Mav,

    Others can tell you more than I about the upheavals following Russell’s death. As I recall, many did leave then. The addition of the “other sheep” in the 30s was seen by those I heard talking about it as a wonderful blessing. It wasn’t seen by many as a bailout of the 144000 doctrine which did not allow for all the new converts.

    In my experience the murmuring and “stir” made by changes was less noticeable in the 1940s and 50s. Some meetings were added, both the school on the same night as the Service Meeting, and the Public Talk. Those were some of the big changes during those years.

    The late 60s saw the introduction of the 1975 end-times prediction. Excitement ran high. By the late 70s spirits were low. A few left, others grumbled. Some elders who had lead the excitement quickly took up the defense of the 75 failure by saying :”we are not serving till a date.” I found that argument hollow.

    The organ transplant changes hardly were noticed by most. Only those directly effected probably even noticed. Most others thought that human organ transplant was an abhorrent thing anyway and thought they would want no part of it in any case. Personally, I did not know anyone in need of a transplant during those years.

    As you know most JWs are in denial. About ten years ago I had occasion to discuss some of these issues with some “active” JWs. They did not know that organ transplant were OK, many years later! Same with 75. These folks were alive and active JWs then, but denied that the WTS made anything of 75. I could not believe it. I was in the same congregation as they were.

    Actually, there is more murmuring now than in former times. The Internet has a lot to do with that.

    Sam Beli

    I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon

  • Patriot
    Patriot

    Thanks Beck,

    You know, I remember thinking that the "end" would come by 1988. There was so much enfasis on the end when I was in H.S. But then there was announcment mad that the WT was going to break ground on a new project (this was like in 1985).

    The project was the "Sands" building on 90 sands street, part of the bethel home complex. The announcment asked every publisher to make a specific weekly donation so that the projet can be finished.

    It was expected to be don by 1988!! So I thought " huh? but isnt the end coming? Why is the WT building so many new buildings and starting so many new projects ( in that time the Gilead school in Paterson was also about to start) if the end is near and we won't have to pay for the materials, let alone need a 'bethel' "?

    It was crazy, the end is around the corner but in the meantime give us your money so that we can build something that is predicted to be finished in 10 to 15 years!!

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Beck

    that was a nice reply from you and the line about "Never having to go to Highschool" got me.

    I was told the very same thing! by my mother. Was it an official statement that went around or something the mothers dreamed up? But what a damned lie to tell little kids.

    And BTW my son just started University.!!

    Thanks Mum, and thank you Borg/Jehovah for all the lies.

    The Pope

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Hi Patriot,

    The only change I can remember was when Franz gave the part at the NY assembly and changed the idea of the "faithful men of old" not being resurrected early but that the ones already in the org. was the fulfilment of that scripture.

    I think I was just following what I had been raised to do and didn't give it much thought. Now that I look back on it I was sort of a hypocrite I think sometimes, I really didn't deep down believe all the things I was exhorting, I just didn't have a better explaination.
    When I was with the COs and DOs, I didn't really feel like I fitted in very well. They made me feel inferior. When I got the opportunity I hit the road running.

    Ken P.

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    Patriot...yes that's right....I remember when they built the new premises at Patterson...this was mid 90's...and even then I wondered why the expansion when right before my eyes I could see zealous ones simplifying their lives so that they could fit in pioneering...it seemed ridiculous.

    Every quick build I used to feel the same...it was like more money/assets lining the borgs pockets...yet I never questioned it...I would faithfully put my donation in the box wanting to conform.

    I recall an article coming out many years ago about scriptural grounds for couples to seperate. At that time it was NOT okay for married couples to seperate unless there were grounds for divorce. I remember stories of sisters who were being physically abused by their husbands...some husbands being worldly and some witnesses....and yet they could not leave the marriage...and if they chose to do so....they would be told to go back to their husbands and be a dutiful wife. Some sisters left their husbands and the truth regardless...and it was said later that they were 'running ahead' of Jehovah. How wrong is that??? And then later this article comes out about how they can leave but not remarry.

    I think Sam Beli is right about the murmuring being more frequent in today's world. I agree that the internet has a lot to do with it...but I also think the newer generation of witnesses (the third and fourth generations) are starting to slowly drift out for various reasons. Every now and then I am hearing of young ones getting DF...or young married couples splitting up and leaving the borg. These are sons and daughters of elders...or regular pioneers or bethelites. Why are they leaving? I believe they are wanting to take their chances...it is better to die but to have lived first....which is one statement a friend of mine said when she left the borg.

    Beck

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    Pope

    By the sounds of it...it must have been a statement our folks heard in a drama or something silly like that. It must have been a statement made somewhere at some stage...because my mother hasn't got the smarts to come up with a statement like that all on her own lol. (sorry mum)

    Beck

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