DEATH and Jehovah's Witnesses

by Cold Steel 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    My aunt and her family are all Jehovah’s Witnesses. A few years before my grandmother died, my aunt began giving her all sorts of written materials telling her about how when one dies, one “sleeps” in the ground until they’re resurrected by Jehovah. As a Methodist, she was taught that people have spirits and when they die, their spirits go to a spirit realm to await resurrection. This is my belief, too, and I explained to my grandmother why the soul sleeping doctrine was false. But no sooner was my head turned than my aunt would begin sending her more material. It got to where my grandmother didn't know who to believe.

    Peter wrote that “knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle [body], even as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.” (2 Peter 1:13-14) And Paul wrote: “The Spirit beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” If God has a spirit and we are the children of God, then doesn’t it make sense that we, too, would have spirits?

    My aunt, however, quoted that scripture in Ecclesiastes which they interpreted to mean that when you’re dead, you’re dead. But that book was not an eschatological work, but a philosophical one. Indeed, the author seems to know little about eschatological matters at all, but was cynical in nature. Indeed, Peter speaks of “the gospel being preached also to them that are dead.” (1 Peter 4:6) Also, that Jesus “went and preached to the spirits in prison, which sometime were disobedient…in the days of Noah. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

    Paul writes that “if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised; and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain [and] ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.” In short, if Jesus was not raised, then they which are asleep in Christ are perished.” But the implication is, if Jesus was raised, then are the dead in Christ not perished! (see 1 Cor. 15:16-19)

    The bottom line is that the soul sleeping doctrine of the JWs frightened my grandmother, who didn’t want to (in her mind) return to nothingness.

    So my question is this: As JWs approach death, is the soul sleeping doctrine comforting or disturbing in nature?

    My father died almost a year ago, and shortly before his death, he smiled and told us he had seen his mother and had spoken to her. That’s when we knew he was near death. And my grandfather on my mother’s side also told us that he had seen and spoken to his parents and others. I’ve studied a number of near death experiences and I’m convinced they’re on the level.

    So what are your experiences? Have you ever known of any Jehovah’s Witnesses who have had near death experiences? And for the ones who don’t, do they appear to fear death more than those who feel they have spirits?

    As for those of you who have left the JWs, have your views on death changed?

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    So my question is this: As JWs approach death, is the soul sleeping doctrine comforting or disturbing in nature?

    The majority find it comforting, or else they wouldn't believe it. In America, people feel free to shop for religious beliefs like they shop for shoes. After all, MOST people generally prefer to believe in only what they WANT to believe. That should be a HUGE red flag to people, but alas....

    BTW, the Bible itself flip-flops on what happens to the soul after death. Why? There were various ideas held by different writers of the Bible over the 1,000 yrs it was written, and they didn't agree on what happened at death.

    Leolaia wrote a comprehensive post on it which I bumped the other day, dealing with various scriptures in OT and NT which contradict each other in explaining what happens to the soul when we die (earthly resurrection, heavenly resurrection, or the soul dies). The scriptures vary, depending on the author's particular belief (eg the Sadducees didn't believe in a soul/spirit and after-life, vs the Pharisees, whom Jesus had much disdain for, did).

    Point being, pick which ever scripture(s) support your wish, and ignore the ones that don't: cherry-picking is a handy skill to develop if you wish to believe in the Bible.

    As far as my beliefs, I wasn't really a JW (never baptized), but I think they're right on the non-existence of the soul after death (and in fact, the whole idea of a "soul" is silly from a scientific basis, even when we're alive: it's existence has never been proven, and there's no reason to think a soul DOES exist, except for people who WANT it to exist).

  • zeb
    zeb

    I nearly died once. I over exerted my heart. the ambulance was called and I could hear the paramedics talking to me as if way off in a distance. I didnt see no tunnel there wasnt any life before the eyes.

    BUT,... the sense of peace with no guilt from any wrong doing to any one, the sense of peace no dying according 'what the society said' ( thats seems to be quoted by JW when they talk about anything) not dying as a male, as a dad, a husband, or as any role in this life i have done just as me. Blessed Peace.

    The, the Oxygen kicked in and the paramedics bought me back...................... damn.!

  • BreathoftheIndianNose
    BreathoftheIndianNose

    Any person claiming to know better than any other person on this earth, the events that transpire after death, is a person dictating in a territory to which they have no jurisdiction at all.

  • carla
    carla

    Here is a near death experience of a now ex jw

    http://youtu.be/Pd197O_Am4E

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Any person claiming to know better than any other person on this earth, the events that transpire after death, is a person dictating in a territory to which they have no jurisdiction at all.

    Coming from a secular viewpoint, the jurisdiction lies within "freedom of worship", which protects many such fantasies.

    Science is the method used to explore unknowns in a rational, controlled, and reproducible manner. No scientific inquiry has supported ANY reason to believe in the concept of a soul, life after death, etc. And it's not from a lack of trying over the centuries (for one example of an attempt to weigh souls: http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp )

    The scientific approach, combined with a mind-set that you only believe in phenomena that are PROVEN to actually exist and offer some benefit as being a useable model of reality, means people should not allow themselves to engage in fantastic thinking (unless you get some kind of joy out of deluding yourself: many do).

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Thanks, Carla, for the link. As for KS’s claims that the Bible is full of contradictions, yes, there are some, but overall it holds up very well. There are passages that say that no man has seen God, yet we have Moses seeing God face to face, and the 70 elders of Israel seeing the God of Israel on Mount Sinai. Also, John states: “ Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. ” Thus he makes an exception. There’s also the story of Stephen who, being stoned to death, sees the heavens opened and the Son standing to the right of the Father.

    That said, I don’t see any discrepancies in the scriptures regarding man having a spirit. Daniel writes: “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body.” (Dan. 7:15) Paul notes: “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?” And Mary, the mother of Jesus, states upon seeing Elisabeth: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God, my Savior.”

    There are many such statements in the New Testament. Again, Paul states that “the Spirit beareth witness with our spirits, that we are the children of God.” (Romans 8:16) Also, if all these references to spirits are “breaths,” why does Peter say that “as long as I am in this tabernacle” and that “knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle”?

    From these scriptures we see that the apostles clearly viewed their bodies as vessels for their spirits. Paul even refers to our bodies as our earthly house of this tabernacle and “a building of God, an house not made with hands.” (2 Cor. 5:1-4) The term “not made with hands” is very similar to Daniel’s stone made without hands (Dan. 2), which means that it is of God and not man. Paul adds that “for we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened” with mortality. Again, it’s very clear that man has a spirit, and that it dwells within a tabernacle, or body, that is made by God. “Therefore we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.”

    Thus the notion that man has a spirit that resides in his body is not an ancient Greek heresy, but bonafide Christian doctrine.

  • BreathoftheIndianNose
    BreathoftheIndianNose

    That's right KS. The only thing we can rationally believe is that nothing happens. The brain decays, thus thought and consciousness cease to exist.

    As for near death experiences, the brain is a powerful imaging computer, in a sense. Even if a person sees something when near or at a state of clinical death, it doesn't nessisarily represent reality no matter how strong or believable. I had a powerful dream last night that I thought to be absolute reality, even when I awoke, for a minute or two I still had problems coming to grips with the fact that it was not reality, but rather, just a dream. It was so real.

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