Is It OK For The "Visible Org" To Mak...

by Englishman 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  Englishman

  JW’s are now “tacking” in the way that they deal with accusations that they are false prophets and that they ruin lives.

  Apparently, the fault is all ours! Take a look at this from Touchstone Forum, posted by Bar Enosh within the last 24 hours:

  Skirting the issue? The real issue is, if this organization isn't the one doing God's will in the earth at this time, which one is?
  I grow surprised at those who feel that Jehovah must have a perfect organization. When has He ever had a perfect organization? Was ancient Israel perfect? Was the first Christian congregation perfect? Did none of those people make mistakes that affected the lives of others?

  Show me perfection in any group of people the Bible says God dealt with in the past, and I will demand perfection now. Otherwise, I cannot expect it.

  Some folks go on and on about the 'mistakes that cost people's lives.' What about the truth that has saved countless lives? But it is convenient to look at only one side of the coin, and to magnify that.

  Now I am coming across this reasoning all the time of late, namely that it is unreasonable to suppose that Jehovah’s organisation will not sometimes make mistakes. This argument is being presented more and more as the evidence of false prophecies grows ever higher. In short, the riposte is simply to reply as to "Who else is making known Jehovah’s name and purposes? Just because we made some mistakes, why should that prejudice you against us?"

  Well, call me unreasonable if you like, but it seems to me that if someone / something is prone to making mistakes, then that someone / something would do well to avoid taking charge of matters and issuing dictates that could (a) Result in death, (blood), (b) Split families wide apart (shunning) and (c) Cause families severe financial hardship (Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes).

  I maintain that this new “We all make mistakes” approach is actually a very manipulative ploy. IMO, this is designed to make the WTBTS appear to be more humane so that the really serious issues become clouded over by sentiment.

  Anyone else noticed this trend?

  Englishman.
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  Satanus

  Eman

  Yes, this is the little programme that turns on and plays in the beak of the dub bird. I would extend the arguement with my reply by asking them why god would need/have an org in the first place. Is he not perfectly able to have a direct and perfect relationship w everyone in the universe directly, according to that beings individual capabilities and chaaracteristcs? I believe that is so. Another possible answer to the question, is that god has chosen to not have direct dealings w people, leaving that for other higher beings.

  SS
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  radar

  Hi Englishman

  It irritates me when I see JWs reason like this, they truly have strained out the knat and swollowed the Camel.

  The Watchtower rejects the whole of Christendom(and so preaches God will reject them also) because she has mistakenly confused Jesus with Jehovah and has made mistakes with bible interpretation such as "the Kingdom". In other words because Christendom does not percieve things as the Watchtower, this is a mistake punishable by death.

  Basicly the Watchtower uses "two sets of weights". While it expects others to forgive her for mistakes, she breaths wrath against others who she percieves as making them.
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  Celtic

  Well, it shouldn't come as any surprise to us that members of the WT are using these tactics, afterall, its an age old institution that encourages this kind of reasoning. Sounds similar to me to their Theocratic Warfare Doctrine. On the one hand, making sweeping judgements on the whole state of wo/mankind whilst on the other bleating that they themselves are the victims. They can't have it both ways, doesn't work like that, not for real anyway.

  Peace

  Mark
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  Englishman

  This is my response:

  I think that the closest analogy that I can come up with, is that of someone who is applying for a loan from a bank or other lending institution.

  Before the bank will make an investment in a loan applicant, the applicant will be thoroughly vetted as to their suitability and trustworthiness.

  Only when the applicants past history has been checked will the application be accepted or rejected. In other words, trust will only be granted on the basis of the prospectives borrowers past reputation.

  Following this logically, if I am to accept that God has an earthly and visible organisation, then that organisation has got to fulfill some stringent checking as to it's credentials before I can let it have any input into my life.

  This is reasonable, yes?

  Englishman.
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  Dutchie

  No one expects perfection from the WBTS. Indeed anyone with a brain can see just how imperfect they are. But because they have always proclaimed that theirs is the organization that has the "Truth" you are led to wonder when you see the many inconsistencies and outright untruth that are employed by them. Truth can be expanded upon or added to, but truth can never be changed. Their truth changes constqntly and no one in the organization is allowed to questions why. You are just supposed to accept what they say, do it, and not question it. In fact their whole religion is built on the whims, fears and creative imagination of a 19th century haberdasher. Its not their imperfections that disheartens me. Its their refusal to take responsibility when they are wrong and their conceit in declaring that in spite of these errors that they are the only true religion on earth. If the WBTS can claim imperfection and still be the only true religion, that its members are the only ones that will be saved then why can't they acknowledge that perhaps Catholics, or Baptists, or other denominations also be true religions. They all have imperfections too. What about that religion that uses snakes in their service. They have biblical reference for what they do too and even though some of them are bitten by the snakes and die, they still meet week after week, with their children, and handle snakes. However, if nothing else the WBTS always comes up with some spiel to cover their tracks and I fear that this is just their latest one.
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  BluesBrother

  They love to apply double standards. When they (both at congo and org. levels) are shown to be in the wrong they claim "We are only human " When they want your support they say they are "Spirit directed" and you must follow without question.

  I could live with the idea that all organisations make mistakes, except that they CLAIM to be different.

  If they want us to follow , they must take the responsibility of getting things right
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  ozziepost

  Eman,

  I've debated this many times with zealous elders, including a bethel elder. They all draw the analogy of the nation of Israel by comparing that nation with the WTS. They say that although things were not perfect in Israel, still Jehovah dealt with them and THROUGH THEM. In a similar way, things may need 'correcting' in the borg, but still it's Jehovah's means of dealing with humankind.

  Where I believe they slip up is that there's nothing in the NT to indicate that Jehovah deals through an org. Instead the whole emphasis in Christianity is a personal relationship with the Father having Jesus "in our hearts". The WT admitted this, kinda, a couple of years ago but still they persevere with the same old rhetoric "Come to Jehovah's organisation for salvation".

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

  
  - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress