You have to remember that the majority of JW are really sincere, god-fearing people who are trying to the best of their abilities to live a Christian life. Most of the ones I know anyway. They are just mislead. It is very hard to get them to see that they are misguided so it is imperative that we do this in a subtle manner. Otherwise they put the wall up. Remember the wall is going up because they think this is what Jehovah wants them to do.
Most JW are innocent
by lv4fer 7 Replies latest watchtower scandals
-
-
Nathan Natas
So are most Catholics, most Jews, most Muslins, most members of any religion.
Some people only respond to shock treatment.
-
concerned mama
lv4fer,
I think you have a good point there. Most of the people on this very board have been JW at one point in their lives, and I would guess that most of them are really nice people in real life.
As an outsider, I would say that overall, JWs aren't "bad" people. They just REALLY believe what they believe and don't question a thing. This leads to very strange and sometimes extremely cruel treatment of others who don't 100% agree. I still find it pretty bizarre, but then I am "worldy" after all. -
Scully
I agree with you lv4fer. Most JWs are worshipping God in what they believe is the "right" way, and I do respect the ones who truly are good, decent people, the same way I respect anyone else who are good, decent people.
Like you say, most of them are misled and misguided. They are unquestioningly obedient to the leaders, and this is going to be what gets them in trouble.
Good post!
Love, Scully
-
Amazing
Hi Iv4: I agree with you that most JWs are misled, but sincerely doing what they believe to be right. We can find this true from the highest levels down to the average JW.
There is enough fraud and deception, though, especially as one goes higher up in the organization, that suggests the religion has very serious problems. The problems are so systemic, that is extremely criminally corrupt leaders ever seize control, they could get a large portion of JWs to do even worse things.
The Branch Davidian is an off-shoor of the 7th Day Adventists. It was largely quiet and existed for about 150 years. Then, David Koresh, an ex-convict joined and eventually took control of the leadership. From there on, the majority of the group became convinced to do more and more irrational things out of belief and loyalty to Koresh. The end result was massive death.
While the JWs are large enough that such a scenario may never happen on that scale, nevertheless, the conditions are there that a criminal leader could convince a large segment of JWs to do worse things, even criminal things in the name of Jehovah and loyalty to the organization.
The excuse of just following 'beliefs' and carrying out 'orders' does not sit well with the rest of society ... and if the JWs were in this situation, they would not find much sympathy.
It is my hope, though I am not holding my breath, that somehow reasonable and rational leaders of the WTS will assume power, and move the religion closer to mainstream as has been done with the World Wide Church of God (herbert Armstrong's group) ... which held doctrines very close to JWs at one time.
Yes, to a large degree JWs are misled, and not aware of the fraud and lies told by their leaders ... and largely they are good people. But if they do not wake up, and the religion never goes mainstream, but moves to more extremes, then as individuals they will be sharing in the wrongs, though misguided ... and eventually, even the 'misguided' category will not suffice, but it will give way to the the rest of society seeing JWs are radical misfits who will blindly support anything done in the name of a cause.
Back to the Branch Davidian as a case in point: Before Koresh showed up, the avergae Branch Davidian member was likely viewed as a nice person who simply had an exclusive religion belief system. Misguided, but otherwise decent people.
Yet, after Koresh took control, he was able to convince the men to separate from their wives and live in a different section of the compound. Koresh took the burden of sex away from these men so they could be pure, by delegating to himself the one to meet the heavey sexual needs of the women, and minor girls. These men went along with him. This did not happen overnight, but they were conditioned over a long time so that when the plan was launched, they submitted to it. Any rational man on the outside would see this as bizarre and evil behavior for a man to surrender his wife for the use of the leader ... yet these otherwise 'decent' men did just that.
Danger signals among JWs: While JWs have not been reduced to those extremes, yet, they alreadye exhibit irrational loyalty to the leadership ... how? ... they willingly participate in shunning, even of close family. They let their loved ones die rather than accept blood, though they have not truly examined the facts about blood and the WTS teachings. They accept persecution for not buying a simple government card, which by any standard of measure is a minor act. They stay quiet about the acts to shieled child molesters in their midst, to protect the reputation of the organization, and will even enagge in denial (lie) of these so as to hinder the law from proceeding against the congregation. Or they submit to silence out of fear from threats of ebing DF'd.
Because not all JWs are not aware of these things, adds to the image that they are innocent, decent, but misled people. When some do become aware, the chances are they will act in favor of the organization, to shield and deny the insane acts. Thereby, exposing their mental and emotional condition as that of someone who is all but brainwashed. Does this mean that JWs on average are goofy misfits who are attracted to weird religions? No. here is why.
Adolph Hitler and the Nazis: First, in no way do I suggest that JWs are on the same playing field as the Nazi's or the Branch Dividian. They are not there yet, and hopefully never will be, but they are conditioned.
Hitler and the Nazi's, and Stalin and the Communists too, proved that the 'best' of normal people, highly intelligent, well educated, could be induced to criminal behavior. While the average German may not have fully been aware or comprenhend the extent of the persecution of Jews and others in the 'Concentration Camps' they largely turned a blind eye out of loyalty to, or fear of, the government. Many Germans 'knew' but did nothing, said nothing, and the lie was perpetrated that everything in Germany was okay, when in fact it was not okay ... denial, enablement, and group peer pressure kept them in line with the Nazi agenda.
Likewise, JWs have mortgaged their consciences, souls, hearts, minds, and very beings to the Watchtower religion and accept its conditioning ... they are for the most part good average normal people, many very intelligent, some well educated, but they have been molded by the long term conditioning such that they already turn a blind eye to wrongs committed ... and given any substantive introduction of criminal leaders, and a large part of the religion will easily become extremist, radical, and very threatening and dangerous.
Does society in general care?: It seems they don't or they are not fully aware of the growing dangers among JWs. Yet, the religion has become one of the larger denominations ... still far down the scale from the Catholic Church and others ... but large enough that they now impact society in general more than ever before ... and it will be a matter of time to see which way this goes before something has to snap ... with the JWs ideally moving mainstream and becoming harmless, or moving to great extremes, becoming dangerous, and really attract the attention of law enforcement, the government, and society at large.
-
DanTheMan
One of the things that kept me hanging around was my hope that their could be change. That maybe they would see how ridiculous and unloving the shunning policy is. That maybe they would realize that the command to preach and teach does not fall on all Christians. The lack of any real charity work, besides the occasional disaster relief. The micro-management of the lives of the members. However, I just can't see how it could happen. The changes would have to take place over such a long period of time, and would be so offensive to the old-timers, that I have a hard time seeing it happening without the religion dying off or becoming a sleepy, insignificant sect.
-
SYN
Nobody is innocent when they think that the idea that 99.98 of Earth's population being eaten by birds sent by 'God' is a good thing. PLEASE.
You do have a point tho, most of the R&F are clueless anyway. They have a different set of values and beliefs for the most part to the boys at the top.
"...the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing" - The Golden Age
[SYN], UADA - Unseen Apostate Directorate of Africa. -
garybuss
You have to remember that the majority of Nazis were really sincere, fuhrer-fearing people who were trying to the best of their abilities to live a conforming life. They were just mislead. It was very hard to get them to see that they were misguided so it was imperative that this be done in a subtle manner. Otherwise they put the wall up. Remember the wall is going up because they think this is what Hitler wanted them to do.