by Greybeard 7 Replies latest watchtower bible
I feel curtain that there was a Watchtower article/articles that state Christ blood only covers those of the anointed class, 144,000. They go on to say the "other sheep" are saved by association with the anointed/FDS. Am I wrong here? I thought for sure I read that a long time ago and it rang my bell then... Please help me find this if you can or set me straight on it.
Thank you!
Greybeard
Wait for our great researcher Blondie to read this thread. Atlantis might have a copy of that watcthtower. It always amazes me, apostates are some of the greatest book keeper, researchers and Watchtower historians.
Scott77
I thought for sure I read that a long time ago and it rang my bell then... Please help me find this if you can or set me straight on it.
I believe the article came out in the late 70s. I may be quoted in Ray Franz's COC. I can't remeber which year it came out exactly, but like Scott77 stated, Blondie or Atlantis will probably know where to find it.
That article is one reason I decided to leave the org.
PHG
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/236813/1/Other-Sheep-will-not-survive-without-FDS
Hint:
Instead of showing a JW what they believe, ask them to show you what they believe from their litterature. They have WTCDs.
w79 4/1 p31
Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?
The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.
The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under “Mediator”; also God’s “Eternal Purpose” Now Triumphing for Man’s Good, page 160, paragraph 10; also The Watchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading “Leading the Way to a New Covenant”; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading “The New Covenant.”
Cedars
Analysis of the w79 4/1 31 quoted by Cedars:
Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16)
No where do any of those cites verses make any connection with "the Israel of God" and 'serving as kings and priests in heaven.
Heb 9:15 says that the New Covenant is for "the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance."
Gal 6:16 equates "all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct" with "the Israel of God."
Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) ... So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.
No, in the "strict Biblical sense" Jesus is the "mediator between God and men." "Men" here is an anarthrous plural version of anthropos. It means "humans," or "mankind." The lack of the article means it is not specifying a particular tiny select group.
The new covenant will terminate
(Hebrews 13:20) . . .Now may the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an everlasting covenant, our Lord Jesus. . .
This verse says it is an "everlasting covenant."
More to follow, I just ran out of time.
Greybeard >> PLEASE... I don't have the CD Library
FYI: WT Library CD 2008 (publications from 1950 ...), ISO file
WT Online Library (publications from 2000 ...)
Analysis of the w79 4/1 31 quoted by Cedars: (Continued)
The "great crowd" of "other sheep"
For discussions about the "other sheep" see: here and here
There is no phrase in the Bible "great crowd of other sheep." It is a WT concoction from John 10:16 and Revelation 7:9.
"is not in that new covenant"
According to Jesus, the "other sheep" become "one flock" (John 10:16) with Jesus' earlier sheep (John 10:2-4).
The great cowd "wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev 7:14)
Other verses in the NT describe this about Jesus sacrifice:
(Matthew 26:27, 28) . . .Also, he took a cup and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: "Drink out of it, all of YOU; 28 for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,' which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. . .
(Revelation 1:5) and from Jesus Christ, "the Faithful Witness," "The firstborn from the dead," and "The Ruler of the kings of the earth." To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood-
(Revelation 12:11) And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.
(Romans 3:25) God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was in order to exhibit his own righteousness, because he was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past while God was exercising forbearance;
(1 Corinthians 6:11) . . .And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
(Ephesians 1:7) By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of [our] trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.
(1 John 1:7) However, if we are walking in the light as he himself is in the light, we do have a sharing with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
According to the WT, all these verses are describing how Jesus' sacrifice affects the 144,000. But how do they differ from what Revelation 7:14 describes of the great crowd? They don't. Jesus' blood has the very same effect on both.
So what basis is there for saying the great crowd is not in the new covenant? NONE
"by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant"
No where does the context of Luke 12 say anything about a covenant or that only those mentioned in Luke 12 are in it. This is pure WT assertion.
No where does the NT say anything about the need to associate with a "little flock" in order to benefit from the new covenant. This is a WT assertion.
No where does the Bible say "the little flock." Jesus described his desciples in Luke 12:32 as a "little flock," as in "have no fear little flock." The context says he was speaking to "his disciples" (Luke 12:22) and that they would be 'given the kingdom.' (vs. 32)
The "sheep" of Matthew 25:34 are told " 'Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world. . .' "
So where is there any difference between the "disciples" in Luke 12:32 and the "sheep" in Matthew 25:34? There is none.
This was provided for use the WT citation above. The entire WT citation is an example of disjointed phrase-mining and unsupported assertions, whilst citing verses that do not actually say what the surrounding discussion claims. Yet written with authority, as if it were beyond questioning. WT style at its best.
Take Care
