(The following original post was submitted in April of 2002. This was BEFORE the Watchtower implemented their "secret" Watchtower Magazine vs their "public" one. Please take note of Alan F's response (#1340) and his brilliant "Watchtower Article" that so cleverly substantiates the issue...)
Dear Post Reader,
About nine months ago, while surfing through different JW web sites, I came across a reference to an e-mail that was sent to the poster.
The e-mail basically said that with the way that things are going with the society, i.e., so many " waking up" and it not being so easy to mislead and control JWs, that there very likely will be a "BIG" announcement regarding the order to kill the "apostates" and the "wicked people."
The source said that it would go something like this:
There would be talks, and some wordings in the magazines, alluding to an upcoming announcement. The whole sha-bang would have lots of building up of suspence, naturally prompting much speculation and gossip among the Brothers.
Then it would come out that there would be a very special WATCHTOWER printed that would be restricted...you could only receive a copy if you were a publisher and an "active" member in "good standing. And you could only get it at the Kingdom Hall.
There would be a certain Sunday scheduled on which every JW would come together to study the special (and SECRET) articles to which only JW's could attend.
In these studies the announcement would be carefully outlined in the following manner:
That there is "New Light." That this "New Light" is that Jehovah will not kill anyone who is His enemy after all. That "Jehovah's People," in order to prove their love and loyalty to Him, must take up weapons in a Holy and Righteous war against Jehovah's enemies.
The first, and most wicked, of these enemies, would be the "APOSTATES." (Basically, anyone who has left the organization and does not believe that they teach "the Truth.")
Family members (who are JW's) would be especially targeted with the responsibility to KILL their relatives who are "apostates." Thus doing, they would be "proving" that they "love Jehovah" and "hate" His enemies. (Loyalty to the organization, at any cost, must be insured.)
(This mentality, and horrid picture of the future, brings vividly to mind the days of the Gestapo during the days of Hitler.)
The e-mail that the poster was quoting was very clear in his reasoning on just how probable this scenario is. In fact, he said that it MUST HAPPEN!!
Because it is only a matter of time, with the growing "discernment" on the part of so many, that the WBTS will have to come up with a believable reason why Armageddon, "God's Holy War," has not come in the manner that the society has taught for so long, they will HAVE to come up with SOMETHING.
It will come out as "New Light" that, just as in the Bible days when Jehovah's servants took up arms and slaughtered many, so, too, must Jehovah's "true" servants do today.
This situation struck me as being quite plausible. Just picturing the Brothers "hungering" for some real "meat in due season," and being tired of the same dish being served in a different manner, and being so well indoctrinated to not think for themselves...to believe and obey whatever the society tells them, I think this would very likely be accepted as "New Light."
I well remember the clever and unhurried but systematic way that those working for Hitler got the citizens of Germany to accept the slaughter of countless innocent people...even to casually walking past the piles of bodies along the side of the road. I remember how families, who were formerly loving and protective of each other, were "programmed" to turn on one another...reporting them to the "proper authorities" for any little "sin," (of disloyalty to the Party), KNOWING THAT THEY WOULD BE KILLED!!
I did not think to print out what I had read at the time I stumbled upon it, as I had been hurriedly looking for something else at the time. When I tried to find the same site later, I could not. What I read has continued to haunt me. The organization is so very sick. They thrive on maintaining absolute control...and obedience. And they WILL get desperate.
Please...have you ever heard of anything to this affect?? I would welcome any reply.
Much love and Angel's blessings!!
Anne Marie
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
Socrates
SironaRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 368 of 5275
Since 10/10/2001
Don't be silly.
** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1182 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001
I think is is likely that you were reading the posting of one of the
"lunatic fringe" Dubs. It is very difficult to imagine that the WTS could take a turn in this direction; then again, who ever thought that they would "hook up" with the UN?
If such a change in dogma did occur, it would not go unnoticed by the media or the police, FBI and BATF. There are many, many Dubs who would find it impossible to abide such a requirement.
Lastly, I doubt that very many apostates would allow themselves to go quietly like sheep to the slaughter.
Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 2807 of 7300
Since 12/16/2000
Most of the witnesses I know would never do something like that.
Anyone who thinks the witnesses would kill apostates or opposers on the order of the WTS are seriously unbalanced. They need to think back to the time they were a witness, and whether they would kill someone on command.
We were witnesses once, too.
Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1814 of 1893
Since 3/27/2000
I think someone was either 'pulling your leg' or that person has a serious mental problem. What you describe as having been written to you is totally out of character with how the society behaves anyway.
I don't think there is anything there for you to worry about.
AbaddonRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1257 of 5931
Since 4/6/2001
I agree... it's silly. You'd have to be an utter loofah to believe it would happen. So, not one of the six million Dubs will blow the whistle? The people planning this didn't think about that? So the authrities don't realise that the link to all these bodies is being xJW's within a day or so... and the people planning this didn't think about that. So, when this comes to light, the Borg get recognised as a Worldwide Terror Cult and shutdown everywhere. And the GB didn't think of that.
Please realise there is a difference between being a cultist and being stupid. Sometimes it is hard to tell, true, but they are two different things.
My idea about the Borg morphing into an online cult with JW's becoming techno hermits whose total contact with the world is through the Society's computers, whose every activity is monitored, and who are farmed out as teleworkers to finance the Society is a hell a lot more realistic
Nathan NatasRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1185 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001
As I said above, I don't think this is likely, but I also think we should stop for a moment and think about what happens when a cult disintegrates.
Jim Jones didn't start out telling people that he wanted them to move to the jungle and drink cyanide laced Kool Aid.
David Koresh didn't start out telling his people that if they wanted to die at the hands of BATF agents, he was the man to follow.
The terrorists who work for the Army Of God are to outward appearances nice Christian people.
Followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh attempted to perpetrate a mass poisoning on the residents of Antelope, Oregon so that Rahneesh coould increase his political power locally. For a while, Antelope was called Rajneeshpuram.
Shit does happen.
While I believe firmly that the majority of the WTS rank and file Dubs would balk at orders to go out and kill for Jah, I think there IS a possibility that in it's death throes the WTS could issue some very strange "new light," and I think we all know one of two Dubs who will "go with the program" wherever it leads them.
I don't tink anyone can say there is ZERO chance of this happening, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I DONT THINK SO!!!!! posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1 of 2
Since 4/17/2002
WEL ANNE MARIE, ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT IF YOUR ONE OF US OR HAVE EVER BEEN THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT JEHOVAH WOULD NEVER WANT US OR EVEN ALLOW US TO KILL "ANYONE"!!!!
WE PROVE OUR LOYALTY TO HIM BY PREACHING THE "GOOD" NEWS TO ALL. iTS A "HOLY" WAR, SO WHY WOULD HE WANT MAN TO KILL HIS ENEMIES FOR HIM. IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. IF HE WANTED US TO KILL THEM NOW, THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT IN BRINGING ARMAGEDDON.
I THINK THAT YOUR AN APOSTATE MYSELF, U HAVE NO PROPER PROOF OF WHAT U READ, DONT U THINK THAT ITS A BIT OF A COINCIDENCE THAT U CANT FIND IT AGAIN!!????
SironaRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 372 of 5275
Since 10/10/2001
OK, I think that there is a MINISCULE chance of this ever happening, and if it did, it would be a minority who would follow it.
I think its needless scaremongering, and its silly to say :
Brothers "hungering" for some real "meat in due season", and being tired of the same dish being served in a different manner
They're not bloody hannibal lecter you know!
Sirona
** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
Nathan NatasRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1186 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001
They're not bloody hannibal lecter you know!
...but neither was Hannibal Lecter before his first murder...
"When the rabbit screams, the fox comes running -- but not to help."
- Hannibal Lecter
| THIS IS ALAN F's CLEVER "WATCHTOWER ARTICLE" response... | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 1430 of 5134
Since 3/7/2001
| You're right, Anne Marie. I was able to obtain an advance copy of the article in question: . . . . . . The kingdom of God is the highest government anyone can serve. To be acceptable all kingdom service must find its motive in love for Jehovah. All desiring to be pleasing to God must always keep this foremost in mind. A call to action is now going forth to Jehovah's people throughout the earth. It is a righteous call, and action is a righteous requirement. This is not a new call to action but a revival of one Jehovah's people obeyed in the days of Israel. Jehovah is our great God and Christ Jesus is his anointed King. In 1918 the King came to his temple class which is composed of the dedicated, spirit-begotten and anointed members of his body. He has judged them clean and commissioned them to act as his "faithful and discreet slave".--Matt. 25:45-47. The King has placed this slave over his earthly household and has given him charge over all his goods with specific instructions to bring forth "food in due season" for the household of faith. The servant was also anointed "to tell good news to the meek; ... to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to those taken captive and the wide opening of the eyes even to the prisoners; to proclaim the year of good will on the part of Jehovah and the day of vengeance on the part of our God; to comfort all the mourning ones".--Isa. 61:1-3. The Scriptures and the facts clearly establish that the commission given to the "faithful slave" is grounded in the Word of Jehovah. There is only one organization on earth today fulfilling these righteous requirements -- The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses under the direction of its Governing Body. Jehovah through the Governing Body is now proclaiming his day of vengeance. This organization was authorized by Jehovah to bring forth things new and old for the household of faith and do his work. Therefore it is fully qualified and duly authorized to issue a "call to action" to all who claim to be on Jehovah's side in these final days to busy themselves in doing the work of Jehovah. This "call to action" sent out by Jehovah through the Society is based on the fulfilled prophecies of his Word clearly revealed to those who have the mind of Jehovah, in such Watchtower articles as "What It Takes to Keep Separate from the World" in the June 15, 1980 issue, "Godly Conduct Toward Others" and "Disfellowshiping -- How To View It" in the September 15, 1981 issue, "Christ Hated Lawlessness -- Do You?" in the July 15, 1992 issue, "At Which Table Are You Feeding?" in the July 1, 1994 issue, and "Jehovah's Organization Under Demon Attack" in the September 1, 2002 issue. These thrilling prophecies were called to our attention during the past year and clearly reveal Jehovah's requirements for those who are under the leadership of his King. These are, therefore, right and righteous requirements for every dedicated servant of Jehovah. As the above mentioned articles show, Jehovah prophesied that his servants would "hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah," and would feel "a loathing for those revolting against you." How does Jehovah issue the call to his people? Does it come in the form of a harsh ultimatum: You do thus and so, or else--? No! Such ultimatums are not necessary. Jehovah never adopts that attitude toward his servants. Instead, he foretold that his servants would offer themselves willingly. (Psalm 110:3). His anointed King prophesied "whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it." This call is therefore for those who love Jehovah and rejoice in his righteous requirements and who wish to live in and accept the responsibilities of his government. Such show their faith and faithfulness by their response to the call to action. When this class sees the issue and hears the call, that is all that is necessary. Jesus says of them, `For they know the good shepherd's voice, and a stranger will they not follow.' (John 10:4,5) Jehovah always issues his call to action in an organized, systematic manner. This is emphasized throughout the Bible, from the opening chapters of Genesis to the concluding chapters of Revelation. Let us consider two by way of illustration. In Genesis 1:26 Jehovah issued a "call to action" to his Son, the Logos, and such other agencies as were required for the creation of man, in these words: "And God went on to say: `Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.' " This is all there was to it. Jehovah expressed his will. That expressed will became "organization instructions" to the Logos. It was at that time that "the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause". (Job 38:7) Another splendid illustration of Jehovah's expressing his will, which expressed will became "organization instructions" to Jesus and all other servants of Jehovah participating in the great drama, is the 110th Psalm, particularly the first three verses: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: `Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet. The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: "Go subduing in the midst of your enemies." Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force. In the splendors of holiness, from the womb of the dawn, you have your company of young men just like dewdrops.'" Every organization requires specific instructions for those who serve in it. In the past Jehovah issued his "organization instructions" to his servants through his central agency or channel. Each one joyfully accepted his part and faithfully carried it out. Now, the apostle says, Jehovah speaks to us through his Son. (Heb. 1:1, 2) The Son has returned as King; he has come to his temple. He has appointed his "faithful and discreet slave", who is his visible representative, and says to those who are privileged to represent him upon the earth, "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" (Matthew 24:14); and, "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies." These expressions of God's will by his King and through his established agency constitute his law or rule of action for the "faithful and discreet slave" and for their companions today. Jehovah breaks down our organization instructions further and makes them more practicable by further instructing us through his Word. He says, "In case your brother ... should try to allure you ... you must not accede to his wish or listen to him, nor should your eye feel sorry for him, nor must you feel compassion, nor cover him protectively; but you should kill him without fail. Your hand first of all should come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward. And you must stone him with stones, and he must die, because he has sought to turn you away from Jehovah your God... Then all Israel will hear and become afraid, and they will not do anything like this bad thing again in your midst." Apostates are lawless ones and these always try to lure Jehovah's faithful ones to "serve other gods." Our obligation to hate lawlessness applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies." These directions come to us from Jehovah through his established agency directing what is required of us; and, for those who really love Jehovah and are guided by his counsel, that is a reasonable requirement. It is for our good that these requirements are made; for thereby we are enabled to prove our integrity and magnify Jehovah's name. The time has come when each one must bear his own burden fully before Jehovah. With the provisions that he has now made in supplying us with spiritual counsel and instructions as to our obligation towards apostates, there is absolutely no excuse for anyone, man or woman, to claim to be unable to accept this assignment and assume full responsibility for it. Those who really love Jehovah and are fighters for the New World will not try to excuse themselves on any ground, but will hear Jehovah's word when he says, Let us do thus and so, and always keep in mind the us includes Christ, who will be with us in every undertaking.--Matthew 18:20. Jehovah through his "faithful and discreet slave" now states to us, "Let us seek out apostates in our territory and deal scripturally with them." That becomes our organization instructions and has the same binding force on us that his statement to the Logos had when he said, "Let us make man in our image." It is our duty to accept this instruction and obey it. But someone will say, "The conditions are different. In the case of the Logos, he could accomplish what Jehovah commanded him to do; but when it comes to seeking out apostates, that is out of all reason. We have never sought out apostates before, and besides, Jehovah never authorized us to kill other humans. It just can't be done." We have all heard that argument before. And if it were true it would look bad indeed, and would imply that Jehovah was asking us to do something that is impossible for us to accomplish. The children of Israel walked around Jericho seven times the last day. Phinehas was empowered to clear out what was bad from Israel's midst (Numbers 25:6-8). As loyal servants of Jehovah, so will his holy spirit empower us today! AlanF |
Scully | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 860 of 17437
Since 11/2/2001
| Anne Marie: I've thought about this possibility, but not from the point of view you suggest. As it stands right now, JWs have a very effective means of psychologically "killing" former members. It involves the shunning of people who are DF'd, DA'd, and the avoidance of contact with inactive people. The very words 'they are dead to us' when JWs discuss DFing shows the mentality they are expected to have. As well, the facts that dubs avoid all but "necessary" contact with non-dubs and perpetuate the belief that "worldly people" are "bad association"/evil/unworthy of their company while other dubs are "good association" and so on allows them to think of outsiders as somehow less than them. Worldly parents, in the opinion of dubs, do not love their children enough to sacrifice those children's present life by refusing blood transfusions. Worldly people are all going to die at Armageddon, so it's ok to talk about them derisively and refer to them as "goats" once the door slams in a dub's face. In the mind of a dub, these people are all walking corpses anyway. Further on the blood transfusion issue: Dubs honestly would rather die than have blood forced on them. They would rather their friends die than accept blood. They would prefer that their children die rather than accept blood. I personally have the impression that if an order to kill ever came from the WTS, it would be in the same form as Jonestown, Waco, the Solar Temple, Halle-Bopp followers, etc. That an announcement would happen at a Special Talk that occurs the same day all over the world that the preaching work is done, and the Great Tribulation has begun, and that to spare oneself from the horrors of Armageddon everyone will ...... and when they wake up, they will all be together in the New System. I hope it never happens, but I do fear that in a crisis situation, something of this magnitude could happen. Love, Scully
|
Sirona | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 377 of 5275
Since 10/10/2001
| Having read the article, I can say that I still don't believe that Murder would be the order. Perhaps hating, yes, but Murder is one of the biblical sins and therefore wouldn't be committed by JWs. Similarly if they were told to commit fornication for the society. Sirona ** http://www.religioustolerance.org ** |
Scully | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 862 of 17437
Since 11/2/2001
| Sirona: Having read the article, I can say that I still don't believe that Murder would be the order. Perhaps hating, yes, but Murder is one of the biblical sins and therefore wouldn't be committed by JWs. Similarly if they were told to commit fornication for the society. You don't think that if JWs were told to "commit fornication for the Society", that lots of them would do it just to know what it was like?? C'mon!! Besides lots of them have done it already - isn't the statistic 80% of all DFing in the US is for immorality? Love, Scully
|
LoneWolf | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 252 of 572
Since 4/5/2001
| LOL, Alan. You did quite a job on that. Anne Marie --- I must agree with the others. The scenario described is just too obvious for it to work. If anything were to come down like that, they would almost undoubtedly use a line of reasoning similar to A.F.'s, but restrict it to a very few, expecially "privilaged" individuals that they knew they could control. These would be used as commandos and the rank and file would never learn of their existance. LoneWolf |
Nathan Natas | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 1187 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001
| Similar to the Mormon's "Avenging Angels," LoneWolf? |
Sirona | Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002) |
Post 379 of 5275
Since 10/10/2001
| OK , fornication was the wrong example! LOL! I mean if they were told to bow down to a false God (not Jehovah) they just wouldnt do it, no matter what the GB said, because its so obviously against the bible. Similarly with Murder. Sirona ** http://www.religioustolerance.org ** |
