Riddle from Gospel of Thomas

by bboyneko 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  bboyneko

  Gospel of Thomas Verse 11: The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

  This is an interesting riddle I read in the gospel of thomas. Wether or not you beleive Jesus actually said that it's a fun riddle to try to interpret. Here is my idea of what he is saying:

  The dead are not alive, and the living will not die.

  Dead people are dead and vanished from exsistance, yet living people will not die in the sense that there is a circle of life. You die only to become dirt and gases and get eaten by other ogranisms and still live on in that sense.

  During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do?

  All the food we eat is dead. we eat the flesh of dead animals or dead plants. We make it come alive by eating it and it becomes energy that runs our bodies and minds. Then the part about being in the light, maybe that is talking about being born. When you come into light, how will you live your life, the only life you have?

  On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

  This one seems to be talking again of being born. You became one and two on the same day you were born. You were 'one' with your mother, then became two by being born and having the umbilical cord severed. And again you became 'one' by being an individual. Again Jesus seems to ask, how will you live your life when you have it grantd to you?
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  Doc_jedd

  Greetings bboyneko this is interesting, where does one find this gospel of Thomas? Can you tell me more about it as I have never heard of it. Thank you .......Jedd
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  Introspection

  Here's a translation at this page:

  http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

  I would take a different spin on this. It seems to me it's likely talking about the relative nature of polar opposites, which is the nature of the phenomenal realm we live in. (part about one becoming two)

  I think the "when you are in the light" is basically talking about dying as we know it, in contrast to "when you become two" talking about the relative nature of phenomenal existence, which is life as a physical organism as we know it, for lack of a better description. But more specifically, the part about one becoming two may be more of a matter of the whole life cycle business.

  It seems this whole verse is presented as a dualistic thingamabob, but beyond that description if I had to guess I would say it is pointing to a non-dual idea of being, beyond the whole view of life and death as opposites and so on..
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  bboyneko

  Greetings bboyneko this is interesting, where does one find this gospel of Thomas? Can you tell me more about it as I have never heard of it. Thank you .......Jedd

  
  The gospel of Thomas begins like this:

  These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.

  It's quite an interesting book. This "secret sayings" gospel does not tell the story of Jesus' life, but rather is a list of over 100 of his sayings, some of which are familiar to readers of the New Testament, others enigmatic and strange.

  The Gospel of Thomas is a collection of traditional sayings, prophecies, proverbs, and parables of Jesus. The Coptic Gospel of Thomas was translated from the Greek; in fact, several fragments of this Greek version have been preserved, and can be dated to about 200 C.E. Thus the Greek (or even or Aramaic) collection was composed in the period before about 200 C.E., possibly as early as the second half of the first century, in Syria, Palestine, or Mesopotamia. The authorship of the Gospel of Thomas is attributed to Didymos Judas Thomas, that is, Judas "the Twin," who was an apostle of Jesus.

  Some scholars have suggested that Thomas is also based on the Q source or is actually Q itself. Of course, these remain only hypotheses since there is no conclusive proof that a Q source ever existed. Still, the existence of a collection of sayings of Jesus as early as the dates proposed for Thomas suggests that there did exist such a collection in the early church.

  This Thomas is mentioned in the 'official' bible:

  John 11:16 - Thomas, nicknamed the Twin,[1] said to his fellow disciples, "Let's go, too--and die with Jesus."

  Tradition holds that Thomas was the twin brother of Jesus. Cool huh?

  
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  thinker

  I've always liked the gospel of Thomas. Here's my view of the passage:
  

  The dead are not alive, and the living will not die.

  To the eternal, timeless soul life and death are illusions.

  During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive.

  Ditto bboyneko.
  

  When you are in the light, what will you do?

  In the light = soul only, after death.
  

  On the day when you were one, you became two.

  One: one soul without a body. Became two = entered a physical body, became body & soul.
  

  But when you become two, what will you do?"

  As body & soul what will you do to enrich your soul before you die and become one (soul only) again.

  thinker
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  bboyneko

  I liked your ideas thinker. I didn't bother to look up what religious scholars have said about that passage. I should see. Most people say this is a gnostic viewpoint presented in gospel of thomas but the gospel pre-dates gnostics by quite a bit.
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  Bang

  If you read gnostic writing you'll probably realise the similarities in writing. Whether before or after this or that time, it is of a gnostic style.

  Bang
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  Introspection

  Hi Thinker, I'm wondering what you mean when you said "one single soul without a body" as it relates to the passage about one becoming two - do you mean the soul of an individual or a sort of collective soul? Because notice what verse 4 points out:

  For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one.

  This sounds to me like one big collective soul of sorts. What do you think? Could it be that rather than the immaterial soul and the physical body being the two it is simply talking about separating from that "super soul" or whatever thus becoming two? It seems to me it's the beginning of a subject/object duality..
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  Introspection

  Here's something that occurred to me when I read this fellas, this may seem like it would have nothing to do with any of the gospels, but consider simply on the basis of what it has to say:

  Tao gave birth to One,
  One gave birth to Two,
  Two gave birth to Three,
  Three gave birth to all the myriad things.

  -Tao Te Ching, 42