When a witness, a Catholic evangelist, a Mormon, ... ceases to be, like people of other religious groups, I wonder Where? Your mind says; ithere is nothing outside the hen house. They are like a limbo, they say
Where should we go to be with the Creator and His Son? First, this is a typical error Witnesses have to be induced minded organization, saying, "where", when the question is .... "Whom"
Second, Iesous Xristo the Samaritan, he says: "Not here, in the mountains-nor there-in the temple, and when the time comes, when the true worshipers will worship the Father ... in spirit and in truth" John 4:1-14
This clearly indicates that the places of worship and hierarchically organized systems of centralized (not required)
The response of the Samaritan woman Iesous clarifies doubts and concepts. let see clearly that His Father would not use any organized group as representative of Him
"The time comes and time that is neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem worship the Father, the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth"
True Christianity would be marked in the hearts of people, not a physical place (not here at this mountain nor there in Jerusalem) by extension well understood, nor in the Vatican in Rome, New York and in the Corporate Wacthower Inc, or the temple of the Mormons in Utah or exalted evangelists centers, et, etc
Where? In spirit and in truth. Location, in yourself
But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Sovereign Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their for Father and Lord, and they would shall be my people "Jeremiah 31:33 (NIV)
Roman centurion Cornelius, was an example of this, as well as other Job an Arab man and not of Jewish origin, the common thread among them was the love and fear of the Creator is why in the first case the apostle Paul said, "For a certainty I perceive that the Lord is not partial, but in every nation whoever fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him in "(Acts 10:34, 35.) is so anonymous people everywhere watch Possible Supreme Being in their hearts, not their religions
'Christianity is not presented as a way of life and worship is not directed to systems or buildings, or defined by creeds or codes of law. Nor focuses on specific activities, considered particularly and distinctly devotional and religious and thus have merit before the Lord than other activities that are not considered as well.
It is a way of life that encompasses all life and all life activities. In reading the words of the Son of God and the writings of the apostles, we find that it is not belong to any religious system, to practice certain religious events at certain times and places, but who we are as people in everyday life shows if we are his followers or not. "
Raymond Franz former member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses
In short, there is no religion that can say, I am the true, and whose members say they have the truth,
The religion before the Creator this concept simply does not exist, nor has exist it never, when dealing with Israel was not a religion to use, or anything the concept religion, which everyone defends their respective stronghold as his own truth
What is the truth?
by Jaime l de Aragon 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Jaime l de Aragon
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Talk22
In short, there is no religion that can say, I am the true, and whose members say they have the truth,
Thats because they are all lies along with the inventors and the fake gods
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Fernando
Hey Jaime l de Aragon.
Thank you for posting this - I really enjoyed reading it.
Just wondering which sections are quotes from Raymond Franz...
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Heaven
What is the truth?
Pray More + Wait on Jehovah = Nothing Gets Done and Problems Get Worse
I highly doubt these people have ever heard of Jesus, Mohamed, or David:
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Jaime l de Aragon
It's a quote from the book crisis of conscience in page 182
http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/franz01.pdf
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Jaime l de Aragon
Sorry, the paragraph is in Raymond's book, "In Search christian Freedon" page 182
IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM
By Raymond V. Franzhttp://es.scribd.com/doc/84298260/RAYMOND-FRANZ-In-Search-of-Christian-Freedom
Raymond Franz, who died in early 2010, was a former Governing Body member of the Watchtower Society over Jehovah's Witnesses whom Watchtower disfellowshipped in the wake of discovering his sentiments for the Bible and Christ. He has written two great books about the Watchtower Society's elite top board group of men called the Governing Body.
Although some think Crisis Of Conscience tells more, others think more of In Search Of Christian Freedom. To give just one example why, it exposed Watchtower's spying or stalking on pages 380-383 of the second edition dated 2007.
Franz has written that in 1986 Watchtower's branch office in Athens, Greece, disfellowshipped over one hundred former Jehovah's Witnesses who gave any signs of disagreeing with Watchtower teachings and policies. Although out of the Watchtower, some of the former Jehovah's Witnesses decided to meet and continue reading and discussing the Bible in private homes.As later proved by convictions in court, Greece's Watchtower branch office decided to stalk the former Jehovah's Witnesses. On April 6, 1987, about 50 people who were mostly former Jehovah's Witnesses Christians came together at the home of Nick and Eftihia Bozartzis. From a balcony Nick spotted two men watching the house so he went down to speak with them, one of whom he knew to be a Jehovah's Witness. They ran off. Shortly three of the 50 were disfellowshipped.
On April 9 the former Jehovah's Witness fellowship or house-church was going to meet at the home of Voula Kalokerinou but the meeting had been canceled as the former Jehovah's Witnesses planned instead to meet to celebrate the Memorial or Last Supper on April 11. Voula spotted five people in a car stationed across from her house that evening and the next.
On April 11, the fellowship gathered to commemorate the Lord's last meal or supper at Voula's house. She saw an unknown car on one corner and a van on the other corner. The back window of the van was covered with paper except for a round circle in the center. The men in the car got out and went over to talk to the men in the van several times.
Voula asked a person meeting in her home to go see what was going on. When he came toward the car, it sped away. He went around the back of the van and peered through the uncovered circular area inside of which were video camera equipment used by Watchtower-appointed Elder Nikolas Antoniou and Watchtower branch staff elder Dimetre Zerdes.
Other people from Voula's house gathered. A policeman from the nearby Italian Embassy came. The Jehovah's Witness elders drove off to a park, started unloading their video equipment but were arrested by police for invasion of privacy. The elders lied before a district attorney that they were only there to film a relative of Dimetre Zerdes. In reality his cousin Eftihia Bozartzis had disassociated herself from Jehovah's Witnesses two years before which, due to Watchtower's shunning policy, meant he was to have nothing to do with her.
The District Attorney named Kontaxis said at the trial that Watchtower believes it is "God's channel, creates tremendous dependency on its members, thus (they) are directed to do everything to threaten and trample all that we call human rights." The confiscated film showed zoom shots of people entering the house and being on the balcony, Eftihia Bozartzis not even in the film.
The next year, Watchtower's magazine called Awake! blasted Greece's Orthodox Church for getting a stadium in Greece to cancel an assembly for JWs there. This may have been to make word of what Watchtower representatives' criminal conduct in Greece seem less believable to JWs when they finally might hear of it.
Franz notes "To this day, in all countries, any persons among Jehovah's Witnesses who find they cannot conscientiously support fully the organization's teachings or practices live in a climate of fear, felling they must constantly be on guard as to what they say, what they do, what they read, with whom they associate, from whom they receive letters, not feeling any sense of freedom even when among personal friends or close relatives if these are also Witnesses."Franz also noted that to keep Watchtowerites from discovering them and destroying their ties to Jehovah's Witness family and friends, some Jehovah's Witnesses who have contacted him have felt it necessary to use a different name, use a special post office box etc. Watchtower says that disagreeing Jehovah's Witnesses are "free" to leave, denies it spies on or verbally harasses, while also hiding that fact that after people have exited Watchtowerites, sometimes including staff as seen in this incidident too, have destroyed dissenters' normal ties to family and friends, acted to destroy their business ties and jobs.
The book also details Franz' views about Christianity. The gist of it is that in the years after leaving Watchtower he continued as a Christian unaffiliated with any particular organization but reading and discussing the Bible with small groups in homes where he and his wife had moved to live in Georgia.
He was a proponent of in-the-home fellowshipping, believed that Christianity is the one faith although it has good, average and bad branches. In Search Of Christian Freedom gives details showing that Watchtower is at best an extremely paranoid, selfish organization, one of the bad branches. Anyone wanting to really understand the organization and Ray Franz himself needs to buy the book to read it and underline the vast amounts of illuminating information in it. -
Jaime l de Aragon
Crisis de Conciencia
Por Raymond FranzRaymond Victor Franz (May 8, 1922–June 2, 2010) became a baptized Jehovah's Witness in 1939. He preached despite mob violence, was a missionary in Puerto Rico, suffered from dysentery and hepatitis, and risked his life by secretly smuggling Watchtower Society literature into Dominican Republic. He eventually married his wife Cynthia, and Watchtower President Nathan Knorr invited him to world headquarters where he headed a group writing the encyclopedic Aid To Bible Understanding.
In doing this he researched for example how the early Christian congregation was structured and if the Watchtower Society was correct saying Nebuchadnezzar had taken Jerusalem in 607 BC. He and another man consulted with archaeologists. Those said and showed plenty of evidence that 607 BC was a wrong date and Franz said that he found that absolutely no ancient writings showed that the date correct. However, he was not allowed to point out the fact because Watchtower’s claim that in Christ had returned invisibly in 1914 depended upon it. He notes how disturbing it was when the January 1, 1972 Watchtower (p. 32) came out saying (and thus making as a law for Jehovah's Witnesses) that when a man has non-vaginal sex with another man or an animal, his wife can not scripturally divorce him because there is no possibility of conception, the joining of the man with another flesh. He called this a mistake which was fortunately eventually reversed after no telling how many people were seriously aggreived by it.
He also wrote that Jehovah's Witness elders in a California congregation reported a married couple had literature and photos for non-vaginal sex, and the Governing Body ruled that the couple must be disfellowshipped. These were followed by Watchtower articles against married couples having anything other than face-to-face missionary style, vaginal sex appeared in Watchtower magazines of December 1, 1972 and November 15, 1974. Married Jehovah's Witnesses were told to report their own marriage mates to elders if their spouses expressed interest in or had them do anything other than the sex permitted by Watchtower. Franz wrote that this destroyed many, many Jehovah's Witness families, but he also noted that even at that some of the oldest local elders felt the Governing Body's rules about marital sex had not gone far enough! The Governing Body reversed its decision in the Watchtower magazine of February 15, 1978, but the March 15, 1983 issue denounced “unnatural sex,” saying it keeps men from becoming elders and can lead to expulsion. He writes at length with details that during the times of Presidents C.T. Russell and Joseph Rutherford, the Watchtower Society was under their absolute rule and governance. While Raymond Franz was on the Governing Body, a group not originally making decisions, a tense power struggle began. Nathan Knorr (1905-1977) had had absolute power but the Governing Body shifted his power to the Governing Body despite his opposition. Franz has provided all the details including why Knorr was angry at Franz himself over the shift in power. Franz has revealed that the secretive Governing Body has meetings that are private. Also its members make their decisions largely by consulting and using prior written policies instead of the Bible. Two-thirds of the Governing Body members must vote in favor of any suggested change. He has noted that for example often a majority wanted to remove something from being a disfellowshipping offence or make some other change but could not because of lacking one or more votes.Franz was sad that the good of the organization was (and is) put over what is good for individuals so that rules to continue endangering members lives over which blood fractions can be accepted, also causes divorce, marital unhappiness, loss of jobs. He decries the view that Watchtower's organizational image must stay first, held all important.
He notes that for decades alternative service in place of the military was not allowed. It once came within a single vote of being passed, some sixteen years later, after he himself was no longer in the organization, did pass and was published in the Watchtower magazine of May 1, 1996. The Governing Body gave absolutely no apology to the many men who had had to serve time in prison, nor to their wives and children who also suffered as a result.
His book details that Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi were attacked, raped, had homes and crops burnt in 1964, 1967, 1972, 1975, because the Governing Body had ruled that Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi could not buy a cheap card stating they supported Malawi’s sole political party, the nation's only government, even though Paul at Romans 13:7 and Christ at Matthew 5:41 say render what is due to government.
Although the Governing Body would not let Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi use the card, they did let Jehovah's Witnesses in Mexico pay a bribe to military officers to obtain a card falsely saying they had served in the military. In a letter, Watchtower called the bribes “money transactions.” He also notes that although telling Jehovah's Witnesses that God opposes the United Nations, from 1991 to 2001 the Watchtower Society was secretly a Non-Governmental Organization affiliated with the United Nations.
The book reveals many other things about the Governing Body men and the inner workings of the Watchtower Society organization. Everyone who has ever "been touched by the tentacles of the Watchtower" should buy a copy. Much has been left out here and you will need the book for countless fine details. It is sold at commentarypress.com available in many languages -
DeWandelaar
“Lord, k we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am l the way, and m the truth, and n the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 o If you had known me, you would have p known my Father also. 4 From now on you do know him and q have seen him.”
Simple... the absolute truth is Christ... so... why should we look at other teachings then the teachings he learned us all? In that same verse he says: No one comes to the Father except through me. every single person or group of persons who state otherwise are lying and are placing themselves in the position of Christ (false messiah's).
So what is "the truth"? Too bad for the Gnostics that I have to give a simple answer: Jesus Christ :)
