A Point To Ponder....

by JWOP 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  JWOP

  I've viewed several videos of Judicial Committees formed against so-called "Apostates", and I still vividly remember my own JC on charges of apostasy. A common thread that is obvious is that the accused always tries to state his or her case, while the attending stepford elders pretend to listen and then continue on with Watchtower propaganda.

  And it hit me:

  Often times the accused will present a logic that is difficult for the three elders to answer; as a result the three will bumble through it for a minute or two before someone regains "composure"and responds with a Watchtower response.

  Is the prescribed presence of THREE elders a "safety feature" to ensure that any one elder doesn't get derailed from Watchtower propaganda?
• 

  Phizzy

  The presence of three Elders is undoubtedly for the reason you state, but also it gives them the chance to get a story together that they agree on, and with no record only your word, the poor accused will never be able to counter what they claim was or wasn't said.

  Two would be enough according to their own rule (culled from the Mosaic Law that they say is not enfoceable upon christians) but who would think three Elders would conive to invent falsehoods ?

  What a different picture we get of how Raypub's J.C really unfolded from the recording than would have been got from merely a transcript say produced by Eric afterwards, the Elders could easily deny that it was accurate, and three in unison would be believed.

  The whole J.C set up, right from the name of the thing, is not scriptural in any way, and is downright against all that Jesus worked and stood for.
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  King Solomon

  My impression of the video was that Raypublisher might've as well been talking to a wall, since the JC wasn't convened as a brainstorming session to fix whatever ails the WTBTS, but simply for Ray to state whether he wants to continue to be a JW. It really is as simple as that: do you want to stay or do you want to go?

  He kept bringing up other issues into the proceeding, but that's a waste of their time: it was all about HIS desire to repent and rehabilitate, or to hit the road. If his doubts were based on a misunderstanding, then sure, they could try to explain it. But some evidence that seems absolutely rock-solid compelling is going to strike someone else as easily explained and dismissed. That's life.

  Besides, it wasn't like Raypublisher was going to convince them to stage a coup from their KH in CA, with him convincing the other elders to form a break-away group (and for what point? If you know the WTBTS is BS, then it's an "accept/reject" deal: you HAVE to toss it all out, and not try to "reform" it).

  I imagine it would not be unusual to have a 3rd younger elder take a part, simply as training, not to lead, as much as to watch the process and approach (learning by practicing).
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  ziddina

  Not to mention the school-yard bullying aspect of having three against one...
• 

  MC RubberMallet

  I have to disagree on this one. I think it was designed to prevent stalemate judgements between 2 elders. There can always be a majority vote.

  The side effects are just extra blessings on the arrangement!
• 

  sabastious

  He kept bringing up other issues into the proceeding, but that's a waste of their time: it was all about HIS desire to repent and rehabilitate, or to hit the road. If his doubts were based on a misunderstanding, then sure, they could try to explain it. But some evidence that seems absolutely rock-solid compelling is going to strike someone else as easily explained and dismissed. That's life.

  I know you are used to doing it, but you don't get to define how life works, no matter how many agree with you. Your moral compass has been pointing in only a single direction for quite some time now. Life is a world that we make and we can change it any time we like. It helps to realize that instead of falsely claiming that life lives us instead of the other way around.

  -Sab
• 

  King Solomon

  Sab said:

  I know you are used to doing it, but you don't get to define how life works, no matter how many agree with you.

  Uh, if everyone agrees that life works in a particular manner, then that IS how it works. Look up social contract sometime, as it's one of the few examples where "an appeal to popular opinion" IS valid (another example is voting, where each person gets one vote; group opinion wins).

  Your moral compass has been pointing in only a single direction for quite some time now. Life is a world that we make and we can change it any time we like. It helps to realize that instead of falsely claiming that life lives us instead of the other way around.

  Maybe you missed that the topic is related to group dynamics of elders on a JC, and not freedom of the individual? Maybe you missed that the elders invited him to the JC committee, not vice-versa? Even if you pitched the question as a show of hands, the opinion of 3 outweighs that of the 1. If the person doesn't like those odds, the answer is simple: go somewhere else and find another group, or go your own way. It really IS that simple.

  In a group like JWs, the individual doesn't make the rules; the elders are simply cogs in a massive machine, and hoping to move up as a result of following the rules (which is way to rise in any organization). For all members (including random members of the GB, eg Ray Franz), you either go with the group or you're out.

  That's how real-life works, Sab, whether you're talking JWs, politics, military, the business/corporate world, etc. The key is to learn how to survive as an individual INSIDE a group, AKA learning to play the game, and hopefully not selling out your soul to do so.
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  OUTLAW

  Good Morning Sab..

  KS is right..The JC had an Agenda..

  It`s not about making things right in Watchtower World..

  It`s About..

  

  .............................OUTLAW
• 

  sabastious

  Uh, if everyone agrees that life works in a particular manner, then that IS how it works. Look up social contract sometime, as it's one of the few examples where "an appeal to popular opinion" IS valid (another example is voting, where each person gets one vote; group opinion wins).

  I don't agree with you, so does that make me an outcast or a visionary?

  Maybe you missed that the topic is related to group dynamics of elders on a JC, and not freedom of the individual? Maybe you missed that the elders invited him to the JC committee, not vice-versa? Even if you pitched the question as a show of hands, the opinion of 3 outweighs that of the 1. If the person doesn't like those odds, the answer is simple: go somewhere else and find another group, or go your own way. It really IS that simple.

  We can change group dynamics by not putting up with it anymore and making the necessary sacrifice. Watchtower oppression needs to be rid from my country and saying that they are just part of life is in conflict with that goal of mine. What's simple is standing up for what you believe in despite challenges faced, which is what people like RayPublisher do and they take incredible heat from it. Their heroic sacrifice is not in vain even though people like you set out to discredit them. You are an unbelieving mate, right? If you are then you are part of the Watchtower program which was designed long before you were born. They are laughing at you as you defend their muderous behaviors. Keep it up, they love it. I for one will not lose focus on what they are and what THEY set out to do, along with many others, which was to destroy the western world. It's not like anything big is at stake, right? Just the western world.

  In a group like JWs, the individual doesn't make the rules; the elders are simply cogs in a massive machine, and hoping to move up as a result of following the rules (which is way to rise in any organization). For all members (including random members of the GB, eg Ray Franz), you either go with the group or you're out.

  Excuse me? You have a pretty deluded view on the subject, which makes you a Watchtower collaborator. The real truth about the matter is that the individuals in the Watchtower have the real power, just like the people of the US have the real power over the politicians. If they just USED that power, things would start to improve. Without that realization within the individual no progress will be made. You are essentially asking us to cower in fear like you do. The Watchtower has us by our balls by controlling the people we love. We give them that power by not speaking our mind even when falling on deaf ears, or when personal sacrifice is asked of us.

  That's how real-life works, Sab, whether you're talking JWs, politics, military, the business/corporate world, etc. The key is to learn how to survive as an individual INSIDE a group, AKA learning to play the game, and hopefully not selling out your soul to do so.

  You don't know how real life works, KS, I'm sorry to say it and I won't be able to convince you of that, real life will however. Your morality is as cold as the science experiments you worship.

  KS is right..The JC had an Agenda..

  It`s not about making things right in Watchtower World..

  It`s About..

  KS isn't right, you just agree with him on this one. I'd suggest folding on this hand, Outlaw (good morning to you too, btw), you don't have the cards this time, but you are free to play, as always.

  -Sab