Abraham is not a son of God? So says the elder

by biometrics 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    Following from my other thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/240360/1/Nebuchadnezzars-accession-year-in-625-B-C-E

    The elder made a statement that I knew was wrong, but wasn't sure where to look in the bible.

    He said 'Abraham was a friend of God, not a son of God' and he used this point to show that 'brothers' mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46 (least of my brothers) can only mean the anointed (144,000). And we will be judged eternally by our attitude toward the GB/Watchtower.

    This morning I found in Luke 3:33 that Abraham is listed as a 'Son of God' by his lineage from Adam.

    the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
    the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
    35the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
    the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
    the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan,
    the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
    the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
    37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
    the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
    the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
    the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
    the son of God.

    Does anyone know of any other bible passages that show 'brothers' mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46 does/could not mean the GB, or 144,000?

    Is my reasoning correct? The way I read Matthew 25:31-46 is that brothers mean fellow christians, or fellow man. i.e. we will be judged by the way we treat people.

  • baltar447
    baltar447

    It's a cult they can make up any contradictory bullsh!t and the rank and file will swallow it.

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    ^^^ The only reason I'm going through this is because my wife is half in, and hasn't decided yet. I got her into this, so I need to help her out.

  • baltar447
    baltar447

    Unfortunately the average dub will put the current teachings of the WT above that of the bible. I hope you're successful in your goals.

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    My only goal is to get my wife to see things for what they are. So far I think I'm winning.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Here is some material I posted about "least ones" in Matt 25: (See also this thread.)

    Good points about who Jesus' brothers are. The Society always goes to Hebrews chap.2 to define this rather than stick to Matthew which would provide the closest context for the wording of the parable of the sheep and goats.

    In that parable (Mt 25:31-46), Jesus called his disciples, "the least of these my brothers" (v.40) and "these least ones." (v.45) "Least" (Greek elachistos) is the superlative of mikros, translated "little ones" in Matthew and Mark. It is interesting to see how "little ones" are described:

    Mt 10:42 "disciples"

    Mt 18:6 "who put faith in me"

    Mk 9:42 "that believe"

    Another point of note is that the Society says the "brothers" can't be the same as the sheep since they are both referred to in the same context. Yet just a few verses earlier they say that the 'faithful slave' is the same as the "domestics," even though they are similarly used in the same context. (Mt 24:45-47) Their logic is whatever it needs to be to maintain their 'flashes of light.'

    (Incidentally, the logic in the paragraph above might not work anymore since the Society recently changed their meaning of who "the faithful slave" is. Thus, in the Society's newest interpretation, "the faithful slave" is not the same as the "domestics.")

    A good counter verse is Hebrews 6:10 where those Jewish Christians "have ministered to the holy ones." Using the Society's logic, that would mean that those Jewish Christians could not themselves be "holy ones" since they "ministered to them." Same with Matthew 10:42 where anyone who 'gives a cup of water to someone because he is a disciple' would not lose their reward. By the Society's logic, giving a cup of water to one of Jesus' disciples would prove that the giver was not a disciple. Pure nonsense.

    One of the biggest things (to me) that disproves the Society's explanation of the sheep and goats parable is the fact that the Society has to dispense with what Jesus said the sheep would do. In the parable, the sheep give personal help to Jesus' brothers. This is definitely doable if the "brothers" are Jesus' disciples. But by identifying these 'brothers' as the 144,000, because there are so few and no one can know for sure who is, it becomes impossible to do what Jesus said the sheep would do. The Society replaces their actions with, 'help in the preaching, obey the elders, and give money to the Society.' [See w09 10/15 pp.15-16 pars 15-18]

    In connection with "brothers" in Matt 25:

    The best thing to use is Jesus' description of who his brothers are. It can be found right in Matthew itself - 12:46 - 50

    Hope this helps

    Take Care

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Biometrics *** Is my reasoning correct? The way I read Matthew 25:31-46 is that brothers mean fellow christians, or fellow man. i.e. we will be judged by the way we treat people.*****

    This is what I was told to believe for salvation as a JW. Salvation and the good news is emphatic in Pauls words in Galatians 1:6-13. And Roams 1:16...this judgement is like the weeds separated from the wheat within Christianity. True Christians would have treated everybody Like Christwould.

    NOT as Works FOR salvation but Works OF salvation....It is NOT a non anointed sub group of Christians slaving for a self proclaimed GB.

    As regards Abraham and faithfully people of old, it states in Hebrews they were aliens In this earth, and DID not recieve the promises, but looked forward to the A HEAVENLY CITY. ....

    Hebrews 11-

    Look at verse 13-16. All ancestors including Abraham Isaac and Jacob lived by faith for all their life. They did not receive the things promised until they died. But they were still living by faith. What didn’t they receive? They didn’t receive the land. They didn’t make a great nation through them. They didn’t see numerous descendants like stars. They didn’t see Jesus their Saviour. But they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. They lived like aliens and strangers on earth because they were looking for a country of their own. If they really wanted to go back to the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. But they were longing for a better country which means a heavenly one. Faith is looking forward to the kingdom of God. What was God’s evaluation about their life of faith? God was pleased with them. He is not ashamed to be called their God and has prepared a city for them. He rewards those who earnestly seek him.

    I hope this helps.

    Shalom my friend.

  • insearchoftruth4
    insearchoftruth4

    In the bible theres sons by the tons, bar abbas =son of father, the pharisees claimed God as there father which would make them sons of

    God, But Jesus set em straight who was their father. Watch out GB and those who follow you.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit