Why two tests for the "other sheep"?

sleepy

Why two tests for the "other sheep"?
I could never understand the reason why the society believed that those destined to live on earth had to go through two tests.
One at armageddon the other at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ.
If they have been tested as to loyalty at armageddon why is a further test needed.If armageddon is not a good enought test for christian why have it at all, why not just have the final test?
Also those suppossed to be gong to heaven don't have an test.The get ressurected as perfect beings without going through armageddon or the final test.Does that make sense?
If they are resurected as perfect beings why not everyone else who has died, what is special about anionted people that means they don't need testing like everyone else?
If when you die you have been aquited from sin, why, when ressurected are you a sinner again.This time you would have been directly made by God like Adam was.So how could you be imperfect?

Georgia

good question--it highlights the
problem of having a "two-tiered" system of Christians,
some on a higher level, and some on a lower level.

patio34

M-m-m, Sleepy, Very good point:

Anointed: no test, but just life on earth like everyone else. 0 tests.

Other Sheep: 1 horrific test at Armageddon plus 1 more test at end of thousand years=2 tests.

Where's the sense in that? I never thought of it. Thanks.

Scully

I always rationalized it this way:

There were going to be people resurrected who had never been tested.

There were possibly going to be children born in Paradise who had never been tested.

After a thousand years in Paradise, people who survived the first test, might become "complacent" and think things were better in the "good old days" (remember how the Israelites didn't appreciate the wonderful manna they were getting, and wanted to go back to Egypt for the figs and cucumbers and melons??) so these ones would need to be reproved.

Finally, there was the idea that at the end of the 1000 years, everyone would have attained perfection again, and would be in the same state as Adam was in the Garden of Eden. According to the WTS, it would be appropriate to put perfect humans to the test the same way God put Adam and Eve to the test in Eden.

But now that I'm reading your post, I'm thinking "holy crap, this God is just NEVER satisfied with what we do, always having to put people to the test, over and over and over; what a JERK!"

Love, Scully

sleepy

Scully
"After a thousand years in Paradise, people who survived the first test, might become "complacent" and think things were better in the "good old days" (remember how the Israelites didn't appreciate the wonderful manna they were getting, and wanted to go back to Egypt for the figs and cucumbers and melons??) so these ones would need to be reproved."

Yes I used to believe that.
But that turns armageddon into a filter rather than a test.Sort of straining out some of the bad guys but leaving a few in. But I though God is supposes to be the one chosing the "righteous" ones to survive.If he allows some to survive who could rebel why not leave everyone , if faithfulness hasn't been determined at armageddon why should some be chosen to survive and not others?

jschwehm

Sleepy-

Those are excellent questions. It demonstrates how the leadership of the JWs enslaves people and it also demonstrates how JWs are taught that for the "other sheep" Jesus' acts were not enough to save them but they must work for their salvation. The historic Christian church has never taught at two class system of salvation and this whole two class system is just another invention by Rutherford which the current JW leadership continues to hold onto.

Jeff S.

dungbeetle

Just more evidence of what can happen when you give a group of angry men in New York (or wherever) absolute power over your life, with absolutely no accountability.

The stuff these religious lunatics come up with in the Watchtower would be hilarious if it didn't kill people.

(((((((((schwemm))))))))

How ya doin' Mr. and Mrs. Jeff?

William Penwell

In otherwords its nothing but a bunch of BS a fairytale that was created by a bunch of old farts with nothing else to do.

Will

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
Mark Twain

Nemesis

Sleepy:
Very good points sleepy—these points have always bothered me, not just since I left the JWs. I brought this up on another thread: ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22899&page=2&site=3)
And I said the following:

One point I vividly remember was a discussion with a presiding overseer many years ago. I was asking why it was so unfair that we [the non-anointed] get so many tests and still God has virtually zero faith in us, and gives few rewards, according to Watch Tower doctrine. I asked him about a 12 year old that was baptized back in the 1920s who claims to be one of the anointed. What if they one week after their baptism they got run over by a bus—would this immature, unproven, inexperienced kid suddenly get zapped up to heaven as an immortal god to rule over us for 1,000 years? He said: “yes.” I then asked how this could be just and fair as many Christians have lived their lives through all manner of tests, evil, and matured with integrity and honour, something this kid would never have done, and yet they [as the non-anointed] would have to trudge on, and pass the test of Armageddon. They would then still not even get blessed with a perfect body and mind [according to Watch Tower doctrine] and would have to go through yet another 1,000 years of testing, and more problems with all the resurrected that would return. After enduring the 1,000 years, they would be tested all over again! And to boot, all they would get if they were lucky would be the same deal as Adam and Eve had. Basically—they get to continue living—they are still mortal, corruptible and able to sin, and therefore able to be destroyed in Gehenna if they chose to sin. Meanwhile the 12 year old immature inexperienced kiddie got to rule as an immortal god over those who are clearly its superiors here on earth—superior in faith, loyalty, integrity, wisdom, experience, endurance, etc. How can any of this be remotely balanced, fair, or just? His reply was: “If I didn’t know you better ____ I would say that was apostate talk.” That was the end of that discussion!

I can’t understand why more people didn’t question this Watch Tower doctrine; I never used to shut up about it, and was constantly told to “wait on Jehovah” which didn’t help one bit. They also contradict themselves when they also used the snipped in Revelation “The rest of the dead didn’t come to life until the end of the thousand years” as referring to the resurrected not gaining perfection for 1,000 years. If they were a distinguishing between normal survivors and the resurrected, then that would logically imply that Armageddon survivors would get perfection straight after Armageddon, would it not? Plus as you say sleepy, if we die we have paid the price for sin, so why does the Watch Tower teach that the resurrected will come back sinful and imperfect? That would make God directly responsible for all their sins, where is the logic in that? Plus the depressing though that after two horrific test and a thousand years of effort, all you get according to the Watch Tower is the same as Adam and Eve had—one teeny sin and you’re back to square one, or in their case eternally damned!

I don’t think I could ever feel totally secure until I was immortal, how about you?

Why two tests for the "other sheep"?

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