I have read here that radher many think that bibel say that heaven is the place to come to, a lot of former JW are in this position.
But i can not agree, for mee this is very inmportant , and i think a reson that JW are atraktiv to so manyis this beleive. Why have you forget all this scriptures wha talk abaout living on earth,and why have you forget that crist talk abaout that some gone to ruel over others?
Son it is memmorial and it cold bee intresting to have this disscusition, i am waiting .
On earth or heaven?
by happy man 9 Replies latest jw friends
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happy man
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alliwannadoislive
i ain't ever seen an atraktiv dub ...
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Cygnus
Well, I have never seen anything in the NT that contradicts the OT notion of the promises made to Abraham and his progeny, which is life eternal on the land/earth. Where did Jesus change the idea of living in a restored Israel (extended to all parts of the earth), to going to heaven to rule from way up there? Why didn't Jesus correct the disciples when, after walking and talking with him for 3 1/2 years, then 40 days of kingdom instruction after his resurrection, they asked the very Jewish question all worshippers of Jehovah expected about the whereabouts of the kingdom -- a restored Israel and a kingdom on the earth?
Paul did NOT write: "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," but evangelicals will misquote him all the time to prove their philosophy. Why anyone would want to be disembodied and taken far from this planet is beyond me.
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Solace
Do the resurrected go to heaven or stay on earth?
I think about this often.
Matthew 5:3-10 Does include the popular "The meek shall inherit the earth" that J.W.s are constantly quoting.
But in the same scripture Matthew 5:3-10, If you continue reading, it gives similar examples of others inheriting the kingdom of heaven". This passage doesnt mention anything about 144,000 J.W.s.
I do think its funny how the W.T.S managed to use only one verse out of the entire passage to support their doctrine. Typical.On the condition of the dead,
one scripture will say, "The dead know nothing" but another scripture will say, "The dead are equal to angels".
It would be nice if everything was a little more specific.
I tend to prefer "equal to angels" but only because it sounds like more fun than "knowing nothing". I think I have spent enough of my life confused. -
Celia
HappyMan
Just trying to read your posts makes my blood clot....why have you forget that crist talk abaout that some gone to ruel over others?
crist ????????????????????
In what language is Christ spelled crist ??????
I still believe that HappyMan is spelling wrong on purpose, what purpose I really don't know... -
jerome
Give the guy a break.
happy man
have you checked out
You will find an anwser if you check the links to other sites.
The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.
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anewperson
RESURRECTION WHERE? Modern Jews and Jews in the Bible have never hoped for a resurrection to heaven but have always hoped to live again upon the Earth. If you doubt this, just ask a Jew. After Christ came the earliest Christians began teaching that there is also a hope for being resurrected to service alongside Christ in heaven. But even at that Revelation 21:3 says the Kingdom which is in heaven will come down from heaven onto Earth. And we read that Christ will rule the Kingdom here for a literal or symbolic millennium and then after defeating death and Satan he shall return direct rule to his God and Father, meaning Jehovah. (1Co 15:24)
Yes, Ephesians 5:4 says there is only One Hope which is clearly the resurrection hope, but it does not speak against the idea that the resurrection for some people will be on Earth while others go to heaven. We are not specifically told whether all Jews will be resurrected only on Earth while all Christians are resurrected to heaven, the reverse, or told if there might be a mixture of the possibilities. Therefore those who wish to believe that the resurrection has more than one location are free to do so (Ro 14:5) for this is not reasoning against the Bible.
When Christ resurrected people such as Lazarus and a little girl whom Matthew 9:24 says was sleeping in death, to where did he resurrect them? Heaven or Earth? When Christ came back to life after three days of death, where did he appear first before going on to heaven? Again, the answer is upon earth where his apostles saw him. When Elijah and Isaiah resurrected people, did they resurrect them to heaven or to live again upon the Earth?
Matthew 5:5 says blessed are the meek for they will inherit which? Heaven or Earth. Again, when Kingdom that is now in heaven comes, according to Christ, where will it come to? Upon the earth. Acts 24:15 says there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust, or as some Bibles translate it, of the righteous and unrighteous. Logically, would unjust or unrighteous people be resurrected to heaven?
The Bible also speaks of a resurrection for people who lived in Sodom and Gomorroh. Would that resurrection be to heaven, or isn't the Earth more logical? Of course some may reason that those who are very wicked at most may be resurrected only in the sense of being recalled to God's memory just long enough to be adversely judged by Him. The point is that in this matter as in many other matters of speculation, we must not try to force one view, our own, onto all other persons for doing so is against God's own Spirit.
So, should we hope that our own resurrection will be to heaven or upon Earth? We may hope for one or the other location or simply say that we will be content with whichever location Jehovah may select for us. He Himself is the only One who absolutely knows for certain where a person will be resurrected. Let no one denounce others for their personal hope, but rather let us encourage each other all the more to act Christ-like, knowing full well that he emphasized acts of kindness over rigid sometimes heartless interpretations of scripture. (Mt 12:7)
RESURRECTION FAIRNESS BY GOD: Some groups try to scare their members into not quitting them by claiming that when God destroys wicked people, including anyone so "wicked" as to quit their particular human religious organization, those persons will never be resurrected, even though Acts 24:15 states "there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Further, 1 John 4:8-10 says in fact God is loving and sent Christ to cover over our sins so that we can live again, Romans 6:7, 23 note "anyone who has died has been freed from sin" and "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."
1 Samuel 2:6 says "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up." As this points out even though God has been compelled to slay evildoers in the past and will in future (Re 11:18), we can rest assured that even then He sends them to the grave (Sheol) which is now temporary instead of to eternal death (Gehenna). All current and past humans have been sinners except for Christ, but in the future resurrection they will be given their first true chance to do what is right without Satan's interference and inherited tendencies to do wrong.
Some call God worse than Hitler for slaying babies during Noah's flood, at Sodom and Gomorrah etc from lack of correct knowledge or, as said, for other reasons such as to scare others to stay in certain religious groups. In reality even Sodom is yet to be judged and Christ says that it will be judged more lightly at that than cities which have rejected the Good News about him. (Mt 10:15, 11:24) So rushing to judge others is wrong and it's especially wrong to misjudge God as unmerciful. To those who have so misjudged Him the One who balances justice with mercy, has rightly asked "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself? (Job 40:8)
For more information about this and some closely related subjects, please contact writer Joe Fabre at fabre at ilhanet.com.br, via his website at http://orbita.starmedia.com/~openlettertowts, or for other free emailed Bible literature come visit our nonprofit Jah Christians egroup at the following to request more free Bible information on diverse topics: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian, or locally:
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Sunspot
>>Why have you forget all this scriptures wha talk abaout living on earth,and why have you forget that crist talk abaout that some gone to ruel over others?<<
Hi Happy Man,
I HAVEN'T forgotten the scriptures like, the meek shall inherit the earth and will live forever upon it, etc. This has bothered me a LOT. I remember back when I was posting on H2O, and scraping the layers of WTS false teachings away, so confused and angry (still am) and learning how misled I was on just the BASICS of Christianity.
There was one poster there (I can't remember the name---I've tried!) who kept trying to get me to email him to "prove" that the dead go to heaven....using terms like Jesus loves you and praise Jesus, and he probably meant well but it irritated the hell out of me. I wasn't ready to switch gears in that belief, and somewhere deep down, I guess I'm still not ready. It stuck with me that strongly.
Now that I've permitted myself to research different ideas, I'm kind of in the middle right now.....both ways sound credible, but those scriptures in the NT/Greek scriptures, they ARE hard to shove aside.
My ONLY "saving grace", shall we say, is that believing everything the WTS taught me for 30 years, and I WAS sincere, that maybe God will "go easy" on me for being so confused. I had very skillful teachers, and it's still a struggle for me to sort things out.
I've gone from being extremely gullible to being extremely wary. I wonder if I'll ever have that "comfortable security" ever again.
Good post, Happy Man!
hugs,
Annie
Shredded families and ruined lives;
The WBTS has MUCH to answer for......Hugs,
Sunspot
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Yadirf
anewperson
But even at that Revelation 21:3 says the Kingdom which is in heaven will come down from heaven onto Earth.
I think you must've meant to say verse 2, not 3.Too, I think you're quite mistaken in your interpretation of that verse.
The setting is after the 1000 years are up, also the test at the end of that period is over. At that point the purpose for which the "bride" of Christ (aka New Jerusalem, aka the 144,000 that had ruled with Christ) had gone to Heaven in the first place will have been fully accomplished. Such ones have no further reason for being in Heaven. Hence, the 144,000 return to the Earth to RESUME life in the flesh. Both Heaven and Earth will have been renewed, having been restored to the pure state they each were in prior to Satan having spoiled them.
The 144,000 (originally flesh) have no more business living in Heaven forever than Jesus (originally spirit) did living on the Earth forever. Also, when Jesus said "I go my way to prepare a place for you....", he never said nor meant that it would be forever. -- John 14:2, 3.
Yadirf
Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
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ozziepost
Such ones have no further reason for being in Heaven. Hence, the 144,000 return to the Earth to RESUME life in the flesh.......The 144,000 (originally flesh) have no more business living in Heaven forever than Jesus (originally spirit) did living on the Earth forever. Also, when Jesus said "I go my way to prepare a place for you....", he never said nor meant that it would be forever. -- John 14:2, 3.
Oh dear, we are conjecturing a lot, aren't we? Where, oh, where does it say that in the Bible? References please.
It was C T Russell who started on the road of reading things into scripture that simply aren't there and , of course, Joe Ratherflawed ennsured that the Borg was fully stuck in the mire of wild interpretation.
The trouble is, that when you start to conjecture, you have to make other Christian teachings 'fit' in with them. My advice is, leave it be. If it ain't in the Bible clearly stated, then don't worry about it.
Cheers,
Ozzie"If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."
- Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress