by Kool Jo 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
How do you overcome the following objections if you were to reason with a JW?
1. Jehovah uses imperfect people to accomplish his will. In Bible times, he used imperfect servants to accomplish great things.
2. We must wait on Jehovah for clarification on matters.
These are two statements often made by JW's to justify remaining in the borg, even if they have a bit of doubt...so how do you reply when someone says either or both of the above?
Peace
Kool Jo
What would a JW say to a householder who said the same thing about the leaders of his or her religion as a reason for sticking with them?
1. Jehovah used imperfect people in Bible times. How many times would you say errors in teachings are found in the Bible? After all, if both the Bible and WT are inspired (directed) by the Spirit, shouldn't they both meet the same criteria? If the WT isn't the word of God, it is nothing more than the word of man. We all know what the Bible says about that. So we shouldn't be looking at the WT as the be-all, end-all authority on what the Bible says. After all, unlike the Bible, it could be teaching incorrect things.
2. This goes right along with point one. If the WT is not inspired by God, why would we wait for answers from Jehovah through it?
The WT (and JW's) uses such circular reasoning it is almost impossible to have an intelligent conversation with them.
Hi Kool Joe, How about KISS (Keep it Simple St_pid) and always wait for them to respond, even if they cannot respond for 5 minutes. Ask JWs where does it say that in the Bible? Why did Our Father in Heaven give Christ's disciples the Holy Spirit if he did not want the disciples and us by extension using the Holy Spirit? See Mt 3:11, Mk 1:7-9, Jn 14:14-16, Jn 14:26, and Acts 1:5-8 to list just a few Biblical references. Also, Christ led by example and did not wait for Our Father in Heaven to act, so why should Christ's disciples?
When a JW falls back on their old reliable mind stopper, "Where else shall we go?" ask them, "Don't you mean to whom?" See John 6:60-70 (see below)
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit [ a ] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
Jehovah used imperfect people to do His will yes that is true but did imperfect people DECIDE what His will was and change it back & forth?
I understand that men on the GB are imperfect so may think a wrong or thought or act unchristian by accident but whilst the men are imperfect IF the organisation is indeed Spirit Directed and these men are under the Holy Spirit then NOTHING they would produce as an organisation would ever be wrong.
The simple fact is every JW has to rationalize that either the Holy Spirit has got it wrong in the past (er no!) OR that the GB have produced teachings NOT from God...it is one or the other...being imperfect does not exempt them from the fact they have uttered wrong teachings whilst claming to be spirit directed...you can't have both!
If you read Don Cameron's book Captives to a Concept you will see how easily the idea that the WT/GB are God's Organisation on earth falls down...
How about KISS (Keep it Simple St_pid) and always wait for them to respond, even if they cannot respond for 5 minutes.
They will respond with the scripture that "the light gets brighter and brighter", and they will think they have cornered you in a box with that astute scriptural reference. And if YOU don't see it that way, Jehovah is just not revealing it to you (or any person) who does not have the right heart attitude. After all, Jehovah is the revealer of secrets and to whom he desires he gives it. If they can see, but you don't -- well, that just says it all!
And there you have it: another WTF? Moment.
Doc
DesirousOfChange - They will respond with the scripture that "the light gets brighter and brighter", and they will think they have cornered you in a box with that astute scriptural reference. And if YOU don't see it that way, Jehovah is just not revealing it to you (or any person) who does not have the right heart attitude. After all, Jehovah is the revealer of secrets and to whom he desires he gives it. If they can see, but you don't -- well, that just says it all!
Hi DesirousOfChange, How would a JW respond to "How has the light gotten brighter for you personally? How would you feel about shunning your children because they disagree with the WTBTS's child protection policies that protect pedophiles? How would you feel about shunning/marking your spouse because s/he wants to work more and save more money instead of going to meetings and going out into service less so that you both can enjoy your retirement while you wait for this "System of Things" to end?"
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
A Faithful and Discreet Slave is characterized not by perfection, but by being…faithful and discreet (or wise). Was 1925 or 1975 or the Generation-who-saw-1914 teaching faithful and wise? Was forbidding organ transplants faithful and wise? Was not allowing blood fractions faithful and wise? Was not allowing alternative service faithful and wise? What about not allowing victims of abuse reporting crime to the Superior Authorities? Why the Bethel layoffs?
Someone who is wise, acts wise. They foresee a various range of possibilities and thus can respond proactively, or not get into sticky situations in the first place. The Governing Body has shown by their actions they are neither faithful nor wise.
Londo111
