I didn't have the heart!

RR

Yesterday, a customer of mine who is a JW, gave me the latest mags. We then brought up the issue with the pedophile priest. And so we talked about it for a while, and she babbled about how the Society would have turned them in and yadda, yadda. I just looked at her and smiled. That little devil on my shoulder kept telling me, "get her, get her." But ther angel kept telling me, "wait for the dateline" report. So I said nothing!

Lady Lee

oh man I would have been soooo tempted too but probably would have done the same and bit my tongue - ouch

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

wonderwoman77

I actually had someone do something similiar to me. They said they could never believe elders would do that, and I had to let it out, I know 3 elders that had done it, and none of them got df'd or even reproved for it and one even spent time in jail. It is ridiculous that people are so blind.

RR

It's sad, that they can't see it. You know what is reallty ironic? That there really isn't much of a difference between the Catholics and the JW's. They are pretty much taken from the same mold. The Society has become another vatican.

And I get a kick out of talking to JW's and listening to them trash the Churches for what they themselves are guilty of. You read a Watchtower, and they attack someone, and it seems prophetic of themselves.

I remember areading a Watchtower a while back, the article was quoting a Catholic who was upset because the Church had changed their view about the Mass. The guy went on to say something to the effect, "how can I trust the Church if they change their beliefs?"

And yet, here was the Society doing the same thing and condeming someone else for it. lol ... why can't they see it?

Sunspot

>>I remember areading a Watchtower a while back, the article was quoting a Catholic who was upset because the Church had chnaged their view about the Mass. The guy went on to say something to the effect, "how can I trust the Church if they change their beliefs?" <<

RR, it's a very strange phenomena at work here. The JW mindset and manipulation is SO ingrained, that even the OBVIOUS is dismissed, and the "exposure" of OTHER religions and their "flaws" are swooped down upon like a hungry hawk spotting a mouse in an open field!

I agree totally...there IS no difference between the Catholic Clergy's "activities" now being exposed, and the JW's "activities" that will SOON be exposed on a national basis.

Just the IDEA that the WTS feels so very smug, superior and even cavalier in their finger-pointing at the position the Roman Catholic Church finds itself embroiled in........all the while being guilty of the very same disgusting practices, it makes ALL of us who KNOW what they've been "up" to, all the MORE anxious to see these lying hypocrites get the punishment due them.......

It WILL happen. The WTS will HAVE to "make an accounting" for all the lies they have knowingly told and be forced to face HOW their lies have ruined families, caused untold suicides, and resulted in gut-wrenching pain and confusion to the sheep who mistakenly trusted in them.

Shredded families and ruined lives;
The WBTS has MUCH to answer for......

Hugs,

Sunspot

DIAMOND

My wife is the same way. While watching Good Morning America one morning they had the whole Catholic Pedofile thing on with the Priest and all that. The Priest is saying he is not guilty of any wrong doing and my wife is yelling at the TV. YOU KNOW YOU DID IT. YOU KNOW YOU ARE GUILTY JUST ADMIT IT!!!! I sat there wondering. What she is going to say when the Dateline story aires. I can't wait.

But I must agree with alot of other people on this site. The average dub will just write it off and make excuses.

Diamond

JT

RR

here is the quote along with lots of commentary on what you had asked about:

repost---------------

*** g70 4/22 8 Changes That Disturb People ***
Changes That Disturb People
One of the reasons is that people are disturbed by what is happening in their churches. Yes,
millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for
salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement,
or even despair, because of what is happening in your church?
Oh yes, how awful. Millions of Catholics have of course been shocked by all the doctrine
shift’s of the church. How wonderful it must be a JW, because we all know that the

Watchtower Society NEVER changes anything.
*** g70 4/22 8 Changes That Disturb People ***
Changes That Disturb People

A businessman in Medellín, Colombia, expressed the effect the changes have had on many.
“Tell me,” he asked, “how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible,
in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our
faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more,
but we are to believe ‘new things.’ How do I know the ‘new things’ will be the truth in five
years?” What are some of these changes that disturb people?
The businessman from Colombia certainly raised some interesting questions which indeed
demands some answers. Maybe they should ring some bells with the JW’s as well.
Anyway, the changes that was so shocking to the poor Catholics was as follows:

*** g70 4/22 8-10 Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday? ***
Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?

FOR centuries Catholics abstained from eating meat on Fridays. It was a Church law. Many
sincerely believed it was a law of Almighty God. But now this has changed.
The fact is that the meatless-Friday rule was made an obligation only some 1,100 years ago.

Pope Nicholas I (858-867) was the one who put it into effect. And how vital was it considered
that Catholics abide by this rule? A publication that bears the Catholic imprimatur, indicating
approval, states: “The Catholic Church says that it is a mortal sin for a Catholic to eat meat on
Friday knowingly and wilfully, without a sufficiently grave and excusing reason.”

It adds: The
“Church says that if a man dies in unrepented mortal sin, he will go to hell.”—Radio Replies,
Rumble and Carty (1938).
Imagine that! Some Catholics even regarded this as “a law of Almighty God” and then (gasp) it
was CHANGED!!

No wonder they were upset. But Awake! continue to milk this subject for all
its worth.

*** g70 4/22 8-10 Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday? ***
Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?
Thus the devout carefully avoided eating meat on Fridays. They sincerely believed that failure
to obey could lead to their eternal punishment in a fiery hell.

But then, early in 1966, Pope Paul
VI authorized local Church officials to modify this abstinence requirement in their countries as
they saw fit. The pope was acting in line with recommendations made at the recently completed
Second Vatican Council.

Thus, in one country after another, meatless Fridays were virtually
abolished—in France, Canada, Italy, Mexico, the United States, and so on.
The Effect
The effect upon many devout Catholics has been devastating. “All these years I thought it was
a sin to eat meat,” explained a housewife in the midwestern United States. “Now I suddenly
find out it isn’t a sin. That’s hard to understand.” If you are a Catholic, can you understand
how a practice that was considered by the Church a “mortal sin” can suddenly be approved?

if
it was a sin five years ago, why is it not today? Many Catholics cannot understand. When a
woman in Canada was asked how she felt about the changes in her church, she replied: “I don’t
know. Maybe you can tell me. What are they going to do with all those people sent to hell for
eating meat on Friday?”

Not just a few Catholics have asked such questions. The change in teaching has shaken their
confidence in the Church. Would you not feel the same way if what you had always been
taught to be vital for salvation was suddenly considered unnecessary? Would you not be
inclined to question other teachings of your church also?

*** g70 4/22 8-10 Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday? ***
Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?

Many persons have begun to ask questions regarding the basis for this teaching, as well as
about other Church teachings. And what especially disturbs them is that they have not received
satisfying answers.

What Becomes Evident
The inability of the Church to explain its position Scripturally makes evident an important fact:
The Catholic Church has not based its teachings upon what God’s Word says. Rather, it has
founded many of its beliefs and practices on the unstable traditions of men.

The Awake! article indeed raises interesting and good questions. It would indeed be disturbing
for a sincere Christian when the church that he belong to for many years claim that something
is a deadly sin and then suddenly it isn’t. This would be especially disturbing if that church
claimed to be the only true Church. In defense of the Catholic Church it can be said that not
eating meat on Friday’s didn’t put anybody’s life in jeapordy. A stupid and inconvenient rule,
yes, but hardly lethal.

The superior and indignant tone of the Awake! article indicates that something like this could
of course not take place in the Watchtower Society. Jehovah’s Organization are of course
different from those “man made”. To display such shifts in doctrine is of course unknown for
Jehovah’s “Channel of communication”. Or is it?

Lets investigate and see what we will find. In the 60thies when transplants was in its beginning
the Watchtower wrote:

*** w61 8/1 480 Questions from Readers ***
Is there anything in the Bible against giving one’s eyes (after death) to be transplanted to some
living person?—L. C., United States.

The question of placing one’s body or parts of one’s body at the disposal of men of science or
doctors at one’s death for purposes of scientific experimentation or replacement in others is
frowned upon by certain religious bodies. However, it does not seem that any Scriptural
principle or law is involved.

It therefore is something that each individual must decide for
himself. If he is satisfied in his own mind and conscience that this is a proper thing to do, then
he can make such provision, and no one else should criticize him for doing so. On the other
hand, no one should be criticized for refusing to enter into any such agreement.

As correctly pointed out there wasn’t anything in the Scriptures about this so it would be up to
the individual, and there should be no critizism of the decision. Then in 1967 another Question
from the readers gave this answer:

*** w67 11/15 702 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers

• Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one’s body for use in medical research or to
accepting organs for transplant from such a source?—W. L., U.S.A.
Humans were allowed by God to eat animal flesh and to sustain their human lives by taking the
lives of animals, though they were not permitted to eat blood. Did this include eating human
flesh, sustaining one’s life by means of the body or part of the body of another human, alive or
dead?

No! That would be cannibalism, a practice abhorrent to all civilized people…. To show
disrespect for the sanctity of human life would make one liable to have his own life
taken.—Gen. 9:5, 6….
When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest
removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a
shortcut.

Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human.
That is cannibalistic.

From being a question of individual conscience it was now regarded as cannibalism to accept
transplants. If you remember one of the statements from the above Awake! article that said:
“For centuries Catholics abstained from eating meat on Fridays. It was a Church law.

Many
sincerely believed it was a law of Almighty God.” So like these Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses
who had sincerely believed that transplants was up to them to decide, now very sincerely had
to believe that it was cannibalism and “a law of Almighty God”. In obedience to the
“Almighty” all JW’s abstained from transplants. Compared to the “meat on Friday” business
this was a much more serious matter, because it involved peoples health.

But that didn’t stop “Jehovah’s Channel” in Brooklyn from continuing the tragedy. 13 years
later it was time for Jehovah’s Witnesses to once again “sincerely” believe that transplants “is
a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”

*** w80 3/15 31 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers

• Should congregation action be taken if a baptized Christian accepts a human organ transplant,

such as of a cornea or a kidney?
Regarding the transplantation of human tissue or bone from one human to another, this is a
matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses……. While the Bible
specifically forbids consuming blood, there is no Biblical command pointedly forbidding the
taking in of other human tissue.

For this reason, each individual faced with making a decision
on this matter should carefully and prayerfully weigh matters and then decide conscientiously
what he or she could or could not do before God. It is a matter for personal decision. (Gal. 6:5)
The congregation judicial committee would not take disciplinary action if someone accepted an
organ transplant.

The Catholic’s “meat of Friday” change, completely pale in significance compared with this
insane mess of wishy washy rules who puts peoples life and health in danger. Look at how the
Awake! ridicule of the Catholic’s approach to the Bible:
*** g70 4/22 8-10 Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday? ***
Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?
This is obviously true with regard to Friday meat abstinence. For, look as you may, nowhere in
the Bible will you find that Christians were ever instructed to refrain from eating meat on any
Friday of the year, or on any other day. It is not a requirement of God.

Oh, dear. You can’t find anywhere in the Bible instructions about refraining “from eating meat
on any Friday”. Yet the same complete lack in the Bible of instructions about refraining from
transplants, didn’t stop the Governing Body from presenting them as “a law of Almighty God”.

That this so obviously wasn’t “a requirement of God” didn’t seem to bother them a bit. But of
course Catholic’s has every reason for being disturbed and upset. JW’s obviously hasn’t.
*** g70 4/22 8-10 Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday? ***
Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?

Thus, many truth-seekers are having their eyes opened to see that the Catholic Church has not
been holding strictly to God’s Word. And they are wondering whether any religion that does
not do so is worthy of their confidence and support. But there are other changes that are also
disturbing people today.

According to Awake! this shift in doctrine had the effect that “truth-seekers” now could se
that: “the Catholic Church has not been holding strictly to God’s Word.” Apparently there is no
reason for any “truth-seekers” to draw such conclusions about the Watchtower Society despite
the fact that their changes are far more serious.
Imagine what would happen if a Witness “in Medellín, Colombia,” had expressed these
questions:

“how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or
have faith? Just ten years ago we Jehovah’s Witnesses had the absolute truth, we put all our
faith in this.

Now the Governing Body and our elders are telling us this is not the way to believe
any more, but we are to believe ‘new things.’ How do I know the ‘new things’ will be the truth
in five years?”

Let us do another experiment, lets take another part of the Awake! article and substitute
Catholic with JW, etc and see how well these things fit the Watchtower:

The Effect

The effect upon many devout Jehovah’s Witnesses has been devastating. “All these years I
thought it was a sin to take an organ transplant,” explained a housewife in the midwestern
United States.

“Now I suddenly find out it isn’t a sin. That’s hard to understand.” If you are a
Jehovah’s Witness, can you understand how a practice that was considered by the Society a
“mortal sin” can suddenly be approved? if it was a sin 13 years ago, why is it not today? Many
Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot understand. When a woman in Canada was asked how she felt
about the changes in her religion, she replied: “I don’t know. Maybe you can tell me. What are
they going to do with all those people who was disfellowshipped for accepting an organ
transplant?”

Not just a few Jehovah’s Witnesses have asked such questions. The change in
teaching has shaken their confidence in the Society. Would you not feel the same way if what
you had always been taught to be vital for salvation was suddenly considered unnecessary?
Would you not be inclined to question other teachings of your church also?

Why don’t we see such relevant questions posed by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Because the person
asking them would immediately find himself outside the organization. It is only Catholic’s and
others who can afford the luxury of being “disturbed” by doctrinal changes.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have of course no reason to do so. When the teachings of the Watchtower
changes it is of course an entirely different matter.

*** rs 205 Jehovah's Witnesses ***
Why have there been changes over the years in the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

The Bible shows that Jehovah enables his servants to understand his purpose in a progressive
manner. (Prov. 4:18; John 16:12) Thus, the prophets who were divinely inspired to write
portions of the Bible did not understand the meaning of everything that they wrote. (Dan. 12:8,
9; 1 Pet. 1:10-12) The apostles of Jesus Christ realized that there was much they did not
understand in their time. (Acts 1:6, 7; 1 Cor. 13:9-12) The Bible shows that there would be a
great increase in knowledge of the truth during “the time of the end.” (Dan. 12:4)

Increased

knowledge often requires adjustments in one’s thinking. Jehovah’s Witnesses are willing
humbly to make such adjustments.
The Catholic’s of course not being Jehovah’s servants cannot claim that they understand God’s
purpose in a progressive manner. I mean when the Prophet’s of old didn’t understand what
they were writing how can one expect that the GB should understand it.

They have time and time again demonstrated their inability to understand anything in the Bible.

So when Catholic’s realized how utterly unbiblical the “meat on Friday” ban was and simply
stopped the charade, that would lead to “truth-seekers” realizing that they was less than
“strict” with the Bible. Jehovah’s Witnesses are unlike these detestable Catholic’s “willing
humbly to make adjustments.”

The moral of this matter is that when other religions make doctrinal shift’s, that is a a matter of
great concern for their members who then has every reason to be upset, disturbed etc. Sincere
“truth-seekers” should then realize that: “the Catholic Church has not been holding strictly to
God’s Word.”

When Jehovah’s Witnesses does much more serious full circle shifts from regarding transplant
as a individual decision to regarding it as cannibalism back to being an individual choise. It is
painted as understanding God’s purpose in a “progressive manner”, and perfectly in order. You
can say whatever you want about the Watchtower Society, but honesty isn’t one of their most
noticeable characters.

Cheeky,I wonder what your leaders would write about how one should view "disturbing"
changes now? (If they're writing about Catholics) Maybe they would tell them that it's ok for
Catholics to make changes...that they are waiting on Jah too. Perhaps they would tell them that
if they don't understand changes, it will be revealed in time and therefore, it's no reason to
believe that one should apostate from their religion.

One thing for sure.....I've noticed that in almost every single watchtower that comes of the
press at society, there is Catholic bashing in it. The writers CONSTANTLY referr to old info
regarding Catholics too and make sure that it is of importance but, of course, their old material
isn't. It's just old news, old light, and makes no difference. I've yet to see the Catholics writing
articles that bash JWs.

I can understand why Tantulus and others get upset reading stuff like that.

RR

Yep, that;s it. Isn't it unbelievable?

JT

I agree,

the way in which they twist things are sometims beyond belief

James

I didn't have the heart!

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