by cantleave 9 Replies latest jw friends
Mark 3:29 seems to indicate that this is so.
So please theists explain what is meant by this scripture? Is god really that petty? Do you believe that blasphemy is a greater sin than murder or paedophilia (which isn't even mentioned as a sin) or genocide?
Is Blasphemy really the Unforgivable sin?
Not even the boys in Brooklyn are sure.
Some people who were once faithful Christians have purposely drawn away from God, perhaps because of bitterness, pride, or greed, and are now apostate fighters against God’s spirit. They willfully oppose what the spirit is clearly accomplishing. Have these individuals committed the unforgivable sin? Jehovah is the final Judge.—Romans 14:12.
2003 Awake!, February 8, page 13
If you are interested, here is what the NICNT-Matthew commentary (R. T. France, p.482-3) posits about Matthew 12:31, 32, which is the parallel account to Mark 3:29:
31-32 The saying about an "unforgivable sin" has often been inappropriately, and sometimes disastrously, applied to contexts which have little to do with its original setting. As it appears here in Matthew, it is specifically concerned with what the Pharisees have just said. In 9:3 the scribes had accused Jesus of blasphemy; now the charge is returned. . . The term [blasphemy] could also be used in a less technical sense for "slander" of fellow human beings (Mt 27:39; Lu 23:39; Rom 3:8; etc.), and the use of "speak against" as a synonym for "blaspheme" in v.32 reflects that usage, but here the reference to the Holy Spirit as the object of blasphemy requires the full religious sense of the term. The opening "therefore" [Beginning of verse 31; NWT has "On this account" - Bobcat] indicates that in this context blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to be understood in terms of the Pharisees charge in v. 24 [of Mt 12], attributing what is in fact the work of God's Spirit (v. 28) to his ultimate enemy, Satan. It is thus a complete perversion of spiritual values, revealing a decisive choice of the wrong side in the battle between good and evil, between God and Satan. It is this which has shown these Pharisees to be decisively "against" Jesus (v. 30). And it is this diametrical opposition to the good purpose of God which is ultimately unforgivable. The point needs to be emphasized, since the language of this saying has sometimes been incautiously applied to real or supposed offenses "against the Holy Spirit" 32 which have nothing to do with the blasphemy of these Pharisees, and serious pastoral damage has thus been caused. 33 This saying is a wake-up call to the arrogant, not a bogey to frighten those of tender conscience.
. . .
The balance of the clauses in v. 31 requires the first to be read as a foil to the second, not as a declaration in its own right. It is beside the point to question whether any worse sin could be imagined; the point is that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit stands out from the run of "ordinary" sins as being uniquely serious. It is to declare oneself against God. It is to "call evil good and good evil." (Isa 5:20
Footnote 32 says:
Did. 11:7 [Didache - see here] applies a version of this saying, taken out of its gospel context, to those who question the authority of a prophet speaking "in the Spirit."
Footnote 33 says:
Among many examples, see the graphic account by George Borrow in Lavengro, chs. LXXII-LXXVII, of a Welsh preacher he met on his travels who believed that as a child he had committed pechod Ysbryd Glan, "the sin against the Holy Spirit," and was now irrevocably damned. See also John Bunyan's account of his wrestling with this issue in Grace Abounding 147ff.
[Material in brackets is Bobcat's, for clarification. I hope I got the links to the several books correct.]
Hope this is useful.
Take Care
So attributing something to Satan that should be attributed to god is the unforgivable sin.
Still seems petty to me. I would say Genocide is far worse.
Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
Thanks for the quote, Bobcat, I've often wondered about that scripture.
Someone said that if you have the attitude of the Pharisees so turning good into evil, as explained by Bobcat's post then in a sense you are making yourself unforgivable because you will never see God and Jesus as they really are and understand your need for forgiveness , so you will never turn from your sins . Can't remember who made this comment , but it kind of puts the onus on the person as putting themselves outside of God's love rather than God saying" I will not forgive you ." Maybe a bit like the man who beats his wfe but who insists it is her fault for making him angry so he will never aknowledge his need for help .
Hope that I have explained that o.k.
What exactly is meant seems to be a matter of some debate and uncertainty.
I strongly doubt it ever applies to "ordinary" sinners (the laity class), or "ordinary" sin (dysfunction), no matter how gross.
From my experience few get as close to sinning against the Holy Spirit as members of the Watchtower "ruling religious clergy class".
When a follower (of the Watchtower Society) receives the testimony of the Holy Spirit in relation to the "full Good News" or the "unabridged gospel" the Watchtower Pharisees and Sanhedrin claim the source is the devil, and that the individual has gone into apostasy (spiritual unfaithfulness).
http://bible.cc/mark/3-29.htm
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost,.... Against his person, and the works performed by him, by ascribing them to diabolical power and influence, as the Scribes did,
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
Such is the enmity of the heart, that unconverted men pretend believers are doing Satan's work, when sinners are brought to repentance and newness of life.
(Why does the "true religion" secretly blind its followers to the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?)
Fernando:
What exactly is meant seems to be a matter of some debate and uncertainty.
Your caution is well placed, especially when applying this beyond its setting. In the same context Jesus said 'blasphemy against the Son could be forgiven.' And in a sense, the Pharisees were speaking against Jesus on this occasion. But the powerful works being done by him, which they witnessed, gave evidence of another force present, Holy Spirit.
I'm thinking that 'speaking against Jesus' probably included the idea that much information about him was unclear (with even Jesus charging his disciples to keep some things about him quiet), and with a backdrop of other charlatans among the Jews, it could be understood that some would have mistaken notions about Jesus and see him as someone just trying to upset to current order of things.
In contrast, the WT's intolerance of any who doubt them (let alone 'balspheme them') - in the face of much evidence that proves them to be 'doubtable,' is an extremely arrogant position to take. If they were more like Jesus, they would allow room for some to not see things only the WT way.
At any rate, thanks for your thoughts and
Take Care
BCat,
Once again, thanks for the clarity. I know of a household look'n for some of your skills. Pay is good.
