Sheeps and Goats... People or Nations?

by DeWandelaar 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  DeWandelaar

  For JW's the scripture Matthew 25:31-33 was always a very import issue.

  I was reading this scripture lately in the New International Version where it writes the following:

  The Sheep and the Goats

  31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

  However... the interlinear scripture uses the following terms (as does the King James Version and the Common English Bible):

  

  What is the difference you may say?

  In the first translation it states it will seperate every person individually... in the second the Lord is seperating NATIONS from each other.

  Did anyone ever notice this before? Or am I lost in the translation?
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  Fernando

  Interesting - haven't noticed before.
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  Londo111

  Hmm...interesting. That is something to look into.
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  Larsinger58

  Interesting, but the parable about the "sheep and the goats", the "wheat and weeds" and the "fine fish and worthless fish" are all specifically related to the WTS as the true temple.

  That is, the WTS was corrupted early on by the Freemasonry of CT Russell. That's what all that pyramidology and Zionism was about. By the time Russell had died, Rutherford wanted to make him a martyr and claim he was the prophesied "faithful and wise servant" as well as the angel of the church of Laodicea--that's even on his tombstone! The WTS says nothing about that now. So this organization was corrupted early on. But to make a separation at this point would cause some of the true sheep/wheat to scatter, so the organization was used to preach the good news and fulfill other things even though it was infested with weeds. When Christ returned in 1992, the separation began. Christ's angels began removing the true sheep, spiritually and/or literally and bringing this "little flock" to where he had gathered others. Remember, if the WTS is truly the "evil slave", then you have nine other slaves out there doing what they were supposed to. Thus the "little flock" from the WTS is brought to "other sheep" not of this fold. This separation of the good witnesses from the bad is also represented in the parable of the 10 virgins, where five are wise and five are foolish. Thus only half the living anointed of JWs make the grade and half fail and become the "grapes of wrath."

  So "nations" per se is very much in the context of the reference and is probably one of those many things that are "lost in translation." In this case, "nations" would refer to all those in the JW organization, since this applies specifically to them and the "evil slave" organization. Keep in mind that even the "man of lawlessness" (2 Thess 2:4) must rise up in God's own house, which is the WTS! So that is yet another example of the separation of the sheep and goats and the corruption of the organization that becomes apostate in the end, producing the MOL, which is clearly the GB which has made itself a god to the witnesses. They believe the WTS is "God's channel of communication" but it is not any longer. The WTS is now100% apostate.
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  prologos

  The context indicates that it is not whole nations who are examined and judged. but individuals.

  The US residents, the nation is not judged wether or not "Obama - care" provided adequate health services for poor re - tired window washers, although caring for the sick is part of the basis for judgement.

  The goats will be judged as individuals because they did not put enough house 2 house work time in when they could have. they did not support the GB, newly minted as the FDS of 1919 vintage.

  There will be community responsability of course for national governments not allowing sales of WT literature.

  The sheep will inherit a kingdom in existence since Abel, without a ruling king, because that had to wait until 1914.

  a nation of sheep. not now, but then, at the GT.

  we dont know who the sheep are, because we dont know who the sealed ones are (and probably never will, because like sinners they will have to die) to go to heaven.

  Keep it simple, do good to all, of all backgrounds, because you are helping a fellow creature.
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  Bobcat

  There is a footnote in the NICNT-Matthew commentary about this (R. T. France, p.935). It reads:

  This "them" ["and he will seperate them," 25:32 - Bobcat] is masculine plural rather than the neuter which would be required if it were a seperation of nation from nation. The focus is now, and remains, on the individuals who make up "all the nations."

  [End of quote. Material in brackets above is mine for clarification.]

  Hope this is helpful.

  Take Care
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  Bobcat

  Incidentally, concerning the sheep/goats parable, I posted some research here (my post # 487) and here (my posts # 267 & 272).

  Concerning differences between sheep and goats, the commentary I mentioned above has this to say (pp.961-2):

  The motif of an ultimate division between the saved and the lost has recurred in many different contexts in this gospel [Matthew]; see especially 7:13-27; 8:11-12; 10:32-33; 13:40-43; 49-50; 16:25-26, and the whole of 24:36-25:30. . . In the Middle East sheep and goats were (and are) often pastured in mixed flocks. The sheep, though generally lighter colored than goats, are not predominantly white as the flocks familiar to us; some are brown, and some have substantial dark patches (even when clean!), so that it can take a practiced eye to distinguish the two species. 87 The purpose of seperating the two is not clear, but it is the process, not its purpose, which is the point of the simile. The imagery provides a memorable illustration of the final division of people who have up that point lived together indistinguishably - cf. the imagery of the wheat and the weeds (13:29-30) or of the silly and sensible girls (25:1-12). To other people (and even to themselves, vv. 37-39, 44?) the saved and the lost may look very similar; it takes the expertise of the "king" to know which is which. The righthand side often signifies the place of favor, so that the left is comparatively that of disfavor.

  Footnote 87 reads:

  The close link between the two species is shown by the fact that some languages, such as Tamil, use the same word for both.

  [End of quote]

  A point of interest in the commentary is the note that "it is the process, not its purpose, which is the point of the simile [concerning the seperating of the sheep and goats]." That is, the first part of the parable is highlighting the seperating process.

  If that view is accurate, the WT idea that the parable takes place during the great tribulation, when sides have already been chosen, is bogus.

  Take Care
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  DeWandelaar

  Thanks :)... about the time I also agree... it has always been a future period and not men but Christ and his Angels will make the division
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  transhuman68

  Probably all you need to know is here:

  http://bible.cc/matthew/25-32.htm

  Some interesting commentaries at the bottom of the page. I can't imagine it's very important though... if it was- God would send us all an e-mail to explain it to us.