"It was the delicious meal that convinced me to cook it"

Terry

You decide what shirt to buy.

You decide what color.

Your body decides what size.

Two whims and one practical cause.

You decide which god you believe in.

You decide what religion you practice.

Your core values decided what you were to decide.

Two whims and one practical cause.

You are a child and your parents instruct you.

You are a young adult and your society, your school and your friends shape you.

You are an adult and you become who you already are.

Two whims and one practical cause.

We breed dogs and horses to obtain particular traits that will appear as a result.

We raise grapes and blend them to create flavors of wine.

We are born to families with DNA and we inherit our nature.

Three practical causes.

Who are you?

You are the result of your DNA and your nature is what it IS.

You can reach up and grab a branch of an oak tree and try to bend it otherwise directions and exert all your strength in doing so.

But, what happens when you relax YOUR WILL? What happens when you "let go"?

The nature of the limb as it had ALREADY grown will SNAP BACK. NATURE PREVAILS.

YOUR WILL is an extraneous effort to bend nature from what it IS.

The history of human beings demonstrate how much effort is required to bend the animals we ARE

into the society we WISH we were.

We pick up our holy books and say: "It is god's will that I do this or that."

It is like the Chef who says: "It was the delicious meal that convinced me to cook it."

Tater-T

We do what we do because of who we are...

we are who we are, from influences outside our control...

therefore we have no freewill....

I've been wanting to do a 'freewill' thread, I did some searching on here, you are the only one who has attepted it..

It's a tricky topic.. everyone assumes we do .. I disagree

AndDontCallMeShirley

If triangles invented their own god, no doubt it would have three sides.

God is the creation of man, which explains why every society's god perfectly reflects the attitudes and outlook of the people in that society.

Terry

Choice is a matter of degree. But, arguments about choice are vague unless somebody polarizes into an absolute.

Then, it becomes silly.

What you cannot do otherwise is your nature.

When I talk about human NATURE I mean each person having a nature and not the group of all people.

We can make informed decisions about a great many things and not violate our nature.

But, the things which impinge upon our NATURE cannot be violated and that line cannot be crossed.

We would say, "No, I choose this." But, if we could not do otherwise...it is NOT a choice..

Terry

ADCMS: God is the creation of man, which explains why every society's god perfectly reflects the attitudes and outlook of the people in that society.

I would change what you said by degrees.

Example: You said, "god is the creation of man" and I would change that to "each god is the creation of each man."

You said, "every society's god perfectly reflects the attitudes and outlook of the people in that society."

I would say, "Society's choose nothing but are willing to believe they choose. Each person's nature is reflected by the group they are in and that naturally occuring consensus appears to be agreement by choice."

Terry

TATER-T: We do what we do because of who we are...

we are who we are, from influences outside our control...

therefore we have no freewill....

Few of us are aware of what we are, let alone who we are. But, what we are is the sum total of our nature. Who we are has the power and the will to

attempt to MODIFY and the modification can last only as long as the conscious effort is applied. (Holding the tree limb down by force.)

I grew up in a nation filled with cigarette smokers. All kinds of pressures have been applied against the will of others oppositely inclined.

We now have a public policy pro-non-smoking and less pro-smoking.

Now we could innocently ask if that was SOCIETY'S CHOICE. It was anti-smoking individuals pulling the tree limb (of those who wanted to smoke) and having enough leverage and power to keep the twisted tree limb in the forced position.

Nobody was exactly choosing in the purist sense of the word.

What about people who quit smoking? You are going to laugh when I say this one.

Some people are born with two genders and two sets of genitalia. What "are" they? They are both.

Peope who quit smoking are BY NATURE both smokers and non-smokers. It is a question of exerting a valence.

You can stop laughing now:)

EdenOne

If triangles invented their own god, no doubt it would have three sides.
No. If triangles invented a god, it would be a square. Why? Because it would be unattainable, requiring metaphysical thought, and yet, possessing familiar traits, only perfect (two rectangle triangles with perfectly equal sides put together make a square).
Just saying ...
Eden

Terry

You guys are going too deep for me....

"It was the delicious meal that convinced me to cook it"

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