by GreenhornChristian 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I'm reading Jehovah Unmasked. I am now in chapter 10. It's an interesting read so far.
I just can't believe the Watchtower never told me about the Jewish reincarnation ...(sarcasm)
Don't true Christians believe everything Jews believe? Just add Jesus.
Hmmm So much apostasy to wade through. (More sarcasm)
I heard that Christians used to allow for the belief in reincarnation. In my reading of Acts and the gospels there are some interesting verses about what the early Christians seemed to think about angels. There are not many verses about it, but what there is leads one to conclude that they thought everyone had their own angel, and such angels looked and sounded like the person whose angel it was. This could fit into a scenario where reincarnation in part of it quite easily.
I do like the fact that I can now research these topics and not feel the guilt. I'm disappointed I won't be getting to pet that lion but I'd rather not feel guilty.
My only view of reincarnation was from those who believed they were somebody famous at one time. I suppose if I had lived before it would have been more like Psalms 22:6
It's good that you are examining things and asking big questions without fear Greenhorn- that's what we all should be doing after getting out of the mind control.
Premortality and reincarnation are two different concepts. Yahweh said to Jeremiah: " Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
"Ah, Lord God !" replied the prophet, "behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
But the Lord said unto him, "Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak." In other words, the Lord can take the weak things of the earth and make them strong, as He tried to do with Moses.
It would have been a great time to tell him he was an accumulation of a number of reincarnated personalities, but Jeremiah knew he existed before coming to the earth. And later, when Jesus' disciples saw Him heal a blind man, one said, "Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
The more we learn from recently discovered Christian writings, the more obvious it is that the early Christians did not believe in the soul sleeping doctrine of the Adventists.
Although Mormonism is the only Christian faith to officially teach premortality as a doctrine, other churches are beginning to take another look at it because of 1) the greater understanding we have of first century Christianity, and 2) the proliferation of near death experiences on the parts of people of all religions. It's not unusual for Mormons to report experiences that include a belief in premortality, but it's another thing for Evangelicals and other Christians to support the doctrine through their experiences. Yet many are the accounts of people passing through the veil and seeing people they knew "before" coming to Earth. Besides, with human lifespans being what they are, mortality rates, physical restrictions and the difference in cultures, reincarnation would serve almost no purpose.
Finally, on a Jewish forum, one participant states:
The Midrash Kee Tov states that before the creation of the present world there were 1,972 generations. During this time all the souls of the righteous were present including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. It ends with the following statement: "They [souls] were with God before the creation of the world."
I can think of few things more discouraging as the doctrine of reincarnation. My wife and I recently had dinner with friends, one of whom expressed a belief in reincarnation. When I told her I'd rather go down to an eternal grave than live through multiple iterations, she was aghast! "Oh, no," she said. "Things keep getting better! You don't go from better to worse!" But how would she know? All I know is that once I die, I ain't comin' back, no way, no how!
Can you pls provide sources and the reasoning for your conclusion? I grew up and resided in the largest concentration of Jews in the world and ne;ver heard reincarnation and Judaism mentioned. There may be some secular Jews who believe in reincarnation. I could be wrong. Please educate me. Bold claims require some support. Otherwise, we are merely the WT incarnate.
Jehovah Unmasked is not a scholarly book as far as I know. It is very easy to publish a book. Supporting such claims among people who do know the material is not so easy. It is extremely hard to find reputable books in the religous history field.
Sorry. When we studied New Testament and Jesus seminars in college, the prof. assigned a bibliography. This was shocking. She explained that it is hard to know which books are scholary in the field without being in the field. The assigned books had a range of views. I enjoyed reading them but it was hard going in the beginning. When I wanted to read more, I was reluctant to telephone her and ask for recommendations. Since my illness forced me to take a sabbatical, I was reading such books voraciously. I never thought I would be able to do so until I retired.
I did call her several times. When I was interested in Jewish matters, I telephoned the Jewish Studies prof. In fact, I consulted him so often that he politely told me about Encyclopedia Judaica, which is a massive encyclopedia of Jewish thought, history, and practice. Not being Jewish and raised a JW, I never heard of it. My local two bit recreational library has a complete set. The scholarship is interesting. The more you read, the easier it becomes to evalute the source. Encyclopedia Judaica summarizes the broad range of thought.
If you call a prof at a college or university who teaches this material and ask for a few minutes of their time to reference a source, most are quite willing to help.
There are prominent nondenominational Protestant seminaries. Union Theological Seminary, which was established by the Rockefellers to polish the Baptist religion in American establishment circles, was a great source for me. The bookstore staff always gave me a few choices of the respected authors in the field.
I am not criticizing mass media books. Indeed, I also read these books. Sometimes an easy explanation is handy. The students were complaining that one of our best teachers did not get tenure. Elaine explained the reasoning behind publish vs. perish. She told us that we know nothing of the field. We were NT virgins. She could tell us any wacky thing and we would still worship her. Dealing with peers and mentors in your field is scary but essential. Of course, I still believe that education needs good teachers.
I read so much voraciously that my mom voiced concern. It was so heady. Before this exposure, I wondered whether the Witnesses could be right and I was wrong. How does anyone conceive of God? Maybe I was fundamentally bad. After exposure to such books, I had no doubt that the Witnesses lie massively. In fact, some member posted a chart on this forum with out of context quotes from secular sources that the Witnesses employ. It was not complicated but it revealed so much in a few minutes.
Scholarship changes over time. When I was in college, we learned that a collection of Jesus sayiings, minus the Passion, called Q, was the source for the synoptic gospels. Within a few decades, I read the few believed in Q anymore. New scholarship showed it was improbable. Now I read the Q is supported in wide circles. People note the scholarship that Q did not exist. So here today, gone tomorrow.
It is exhilirating. I feel as though I am Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
Band on the Run
