by NeverKnew 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I'm trying to come up with "dumb householder" queries for IF I'm ever graced with another door-knocking JW.
If I were to say, "Are you the ones who believe in 2 gods," (in reference to Christ being "a god" in John 1:1) would I get an answer other than "no"?
I'm not asking what MY response subsequent to the answer should be. I'm cheating and asking what they'll tell me off the tops of their heads since surely they've been asked this before.
That's an argument most Christians can't win.
How many gods are there in the Universe? How many make up "God"?
We know that the Father is God,
The Son is God, and,
The Holy Spirit is God
It's like asking how many people are in a family? Or, how many people are in a quorum?
God (Elohim being plural) isn't physically ONE God. It can be three gods, five gods, five hundred, five thousand or five million. There's no set limit.
Jesus prayed to the Father concerning the apostles, "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE."
This clearly means that in the same way WE are ONE, Father, THEY should be ONE. Does this mean that they should be physically ONE? Not at all. In fact, the apostle John makes it fairly clear that those who become co-heirs with Christ become ONE with God. That means that as children of God, we can become like our Heavenly Father and like Jesus Christ.
It's a doctrine called theosis.
“ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. ” (Psalm 82:6)
Techncally angels are minor deities so they are gods as well along with saints. Christianity can not claim to be a monotheistic faith especially Catholics which venerate saints and ask them for protection like you would a pagan god.
I would have said no to that at the door of asked. It would catch me off guard and I would say no. Then I'd have to back pedal and explain and stammer around.
Big myth, christianity is not monotheistic. There are many acknowledgements of other gods in the OT and NT. Where do these gods live ? Who f**king knows.
There are many gods, entities, demons, angels etc just as there are many forms of religion.
But, there is only One God The Father, creator, the Most High of the gods, the One True God.
Mp, I believe molech and ba al and all the others were false gods in the eyes of the Jewish canon writers.
As for there being many deities in the Christian pantheon, maybe it depends on which Christian branch you look at. Catholicism is very much similar to the Roman religion wjith which it became syncretised ie st Michael is Mars and I know they have others which correspond with Roman gods. Protestants have one god with three aspects I understand. JWs have one god and Jesus is his first and best angel.
That's how I understand Christian religion anyway. I pray to The Father and Jesus alternatively, a df offence!
A JW may answer "another way of translating that is to say "the Word was divine".
Which is true, and probably a good translation, but that doesn't actually help the JW, "divine" meaning having the same nature as god.
When I was aJW I could only waffle and bluster on this verse (1), and then quickly jump to the verse 18 and the phrase "no man has seen god at any time" as a get out. The trouble was if I read the whole of verse 18 it proved that the Word and God were of the same nature, so we would be back where we started.
I never even bothered with trinity discussions. I usually deflected them somehow and got to a 'have a nice day!' And we all parted smiling.
I love the honesty! I want to see where THEY'D be... I'm a little concerned about using technical terms like "monotheism and polytheism"... I may not want to come off as that smart... not sure.
Cold Steel: Is the plurality of the word "Elohim" known amongst JWs? or have you gone beyond what the WTS has written.... *ahem*
*Lost* (love your name by the way): You kinda took me to thinking about echad vs. yachid in Deut 6:4 which would take me to a request for them to explain that verse against John 10:30 using WTS doctrine/theology and making sure the Bible wasn't contradicting itself.
Julia: I'm not Catholic, but I do know that saints are not deities in Catholicism (giggling - you guys are so cute). They really aren't. There is a different post-death belief system which contributes to the naming of Saints with respect to the work they've done. Protestants and Catholic alike believe in this post-death system. Catholics and Protestants pray to both as well and ask that the Holy Spirit be sent as a guide. :) I love the "have a nice day" deflection! Would that person's address get skipped from then on?
5go: For many of "us" non-jws, angels are angels, saints are saints and NONE are considered a Diety - minor or otherwise. :) Some individuals would take offense to that.
Phizzy: If they brought up the theophanies of the Old Testament, would you then get pushed to explain? Or did you have stealth deflection techniques like Julia... LOL
I watched as the JWs skipped my house yesterday (too many steps, I guess) and realized I needed to plan my next conversation. :)
