It matters not what you believe...or does it?

Separation of Powers

I had a discussion with a friend regarding ever changing "truth." He commented on a verse in the new song book that states that one needs to keep up with "present truth." This bothered him immensely. He was consumed by the thought that if he was not "up to speed" (his words, not mine) with the organization, then he would be judged unrighteous as he did not appreciate the "table of Jehovah" and was thus eating from the "table of demons."

I am sure there are many just like him, the honest-hearted ones that define their relationship, no...their prospective salvation, on the "canon" of doctrine as defined in the publications. It's not that they truly believe it; it's that they expect themselves to believe it or at least parrot it until it becomes part of their vernacular, kind of the "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" position.

Well, after a long and considerably disturbing conversation, I asked a simple question...

"Where do you think Charles Taze Russel is right now?"

He pondered, "Heaven. Right?"

"Have you ever read any of his writings?"

"Yeah, of course," he replied.

"Has much of what he wrote changed? Considering he WAS the organization, has much of what the organization believes changed?"

"Of course! The light gets brighter...it HAD to change."

"So, if he didn't believe what you believe. If a lot of what he taught was wrong and he didn't have the truth, or at least not the whole truth, why is he in heaven?"

Silence.....

So, I pose the topic question to you all....if beliefs can change, do they truly matter in the overall scheme of salvation?

punkofnice

'Present truth(TM)' equates to money and power for the GB. It equates to controlling the sheeple with fear tactics.

So it depends on whether you're a paedophile protecting WBT$ leader or not as to how one would answer the question.

sir82

For JWs, the principal, I dareesay the sole, criteria for salvation is obedience to the Watchtower Society.

What the WTS teaches might be right, wrong or change 6 times over the next year. It doesn't matter. Believe the latest statements coming from the WTS or God will kill you.

The core doctrine of JWs is this: The faithful & discreet slave speaks for God. Failure to accept that is deserving of a violent death and eternal annihilation.

Satanus

In the scheme of salvation? Since i don't believe in the need for salvation, i guess i have one less belief than you do;)

S

Terry

I had a wonderf.ul Art teacher once who told me unforgetable advice.

He said, "Art isn't about getting anything 'right'. It is discovering who you are...in an exterior way."

I think that applies.

We BECOME who we are and it is a kind of ongoing discovery. Trying to get it "right" is impossible. We are who we ARE.

That is reflected in how we do everything and how we approach each thing.

We lose our way when we make a fetish out of "purity". None of us is pure. What would that even mean?

Getting the rules on a big list is futile, although it doesn't hurt to prioritize what is important.

Who ever met a list of rules and didn't fail?

No, what we choose to believe is less important that what we end up DOING. I mean, that is where the test of belief becomes REAL, isn't it?

I believe A and B and C but I end up actually DOING something that is merely R and Q and Z. That's the fact of behavior. It comes out differently.

If we are judged on good intentions solely what an injustice that would be!

That would be like paying a contractor for the house he INTENDED TO BUILD rather than the miserable piece of crap he DID build.

No, the contents of our mind and the fuzzy feeling of warmth in our heart may seem truly beautiful but it is how we impact the real world and real people;

the good and the bad and the indifferent footprint we leave which is the important reality.

Larsinger58

It doesn't matter what you believe if you don't have to face reality or truth.

Imagine: A person may have left on a 3-month trip to Japan without checking a lottery ticket they bought before they left. That lottery ticket could pay them 20 million! If they KNEW that, meaning if they believed that, they would have been delirious! But they didn't know they they were wealthy, so they went through life believing they were just middle class.

On the other hand, some rich people will say being rich is an illusion as well. If you believe you're wealthy you will enjoy life that way. Someone may have stolen all of your money, but before you know that, you live as if you have money.

Thus if you accept arguments and propaganda that you "believe" is credible or true, you feel just fine. But if someone (like me?) shows you where something is wrong, it might burst your bubble. The difference of being happy living in the dark and being devastated is just a matter of knowledge.

whathappened

Never thought of it like this. I will put this argument in my arsenal!

Xanthippe

Proverbs 4 : 18 says,

The path of the righteous one is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.

verse 19 continues, The way of the wicked ones is like the darkness; they have not known at what they keep stumbling.

The context from v.14 - 17 is, Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. Shun it, do not pass along by it, turn aside from it and pass along. For they do not sleep unless they do badness and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink.

(New World Translation, 1963)

Where in this section does it talk about knowledge?

The light is supposed to mean increased knowledge and understanding from God through the FDS isn't it?

This passage is about deeds.

The things the righteous do on their path is totally different to the things the wicked do, which include acts of violence.

Taken totally out of context to excuse their continually changing doctrines.

Why should knowledge keep getting clearer if the GB are directed by God? Can't they hear properly? What are they spirit mediums?

'I'm hearing a B or it could be a D?'

It matters not what you believe...or does it?

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